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Old 05-13-2012, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Newport News Virginia
430 posts, read 1,016,605 times
Reputation: 188

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I've never seen anything like it, what disadvantages does it have over the AR/G3/FAL platforms. It's over all length is 26.1 inches and barrel length of 18 inches. It's seems like it's very practical when your in a vehicle or within a cramped space. My thoughts of this weapon is that it is amazing and innovative. What your thoughts on this?
Heres a pic of it for a comparison, it's on top of the FAL.


Heres it in action.

Kel-Tec .308 Bull-pup! - YouTube

Last edited by Mister Miaugie; 05-13-2012 at 11:16 AM.. Reason: Broken link, missing info.
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:13 PM
 
30,778 posts, read 17,010,097 times
Reputation: 6793
Nope, don't really feel like shooting through walls just in case I miss.

Honestly a nice pump shotgun loaded with #6 heavy load, with a skeet barrel....that will do wonders....
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:48 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,889,753 times
Reputation: 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Miaugie View Post
......... It's seems like it's very practical when your in a vehicle or within a cramped space. My thoughts of this weapon is that it is amazing and innovative. What your thoughts on this?......

Practical, shooting from a vehicle, no. I'm hoping that the OP is not a gang member looking for a "drive-by" weapon.

Unless one lives out in the country, in grizly country, or in a country where people are exchanging gunfire at each other on a regular basis, .308 isn't a "home defense" round. No need for that velocity/range in any USA town. For precision shooting and ranges out beyond 2 football fields, yes. Note that the "stand your ground" laws on self-defense are not going to cover you when your threat is at such great distances that a more "social" caliber cannot get the job done.

That said, nothing wrong with having a .308 for plinking (for the few who can still afford plinking cases of .308 rounds) or hunting. The bullpup would be my last choice for either of the aformentioned activities. To me, the bullpup in .308 is a transfer device. The OP's MMV.

Last edited by lifelongMOgal; 05-13-2012 at 05:02 PM..
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:57 PM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
5,941 posts, read 8,513,903 times
Reputation: 5757
Sorry - between over penetration and the deafening effect of the discharge....not for me!
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Earth
86 posts, read 226,206 times
Reputation: 77
Maybe if your home is a sailboat, and you frequent dangerous waters... that's really all I can think about that can be used for effectively. It would have the punch up close with the portability if needed to use below deck, and the range.

Chances are, you wouldn't be sailing into those waters in the first place.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:14 PM
 
Location: SWUS
5,414 posts, read 7,635,393 times
Reputation: 5781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Miaugie View Post
It's seems like it's very practical when your in a vehicle or within a cramped space. My thoughts of this weapon is that it is amazing and innovative.
Using it in a vehicle will blow your windows out, and you'll probably make yourself go deaf. Using it in a cramped space will make you go deaf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee View Post
Nope, don't really feel like shooting through walls just in case I miss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRedneck View Post
Sorry - between over penetration and the deafening effect of the discharge....not for me!
Plus, you'll shoot your eye out, kid.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Newport News Virginia
430 posts, read 1,016,605 times
Reputation: 188
They make similar platforms using .223 /5.56 nato rounds, pistol rounds and some weird shotgun with 6+6+1 capacity. I'm not endorsing I just want to know your thoughts on their want your thoughts on their products.
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:20 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,889,753 times
Reputation: 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Miaugie View Post
They make similar platforms using .223 /5.56 nato rounds, pistol rounds and some weird shotgun with 6+6+1 capacity. I'm not endorsing I just want to know your thoughts on their want your thoughts on their products.
The bullpup configuration does not offer anything my AR platforms cannot already do.

Kel-Tec is not at the top of my "go to" companies in terms of reliability or customer service.

I'll admit the shottie has me intrigued but I'd like to see one operate in person x 500-1000 rounds in a weekend before I'd lay any money out for one. Frankly, I'm probably not strong enough to hold 15 rounds of 12 ga. in the magazines and hold the gun up on target the entire time. It would be more productive and realistic for me just to keep feeding rounds into an 870 while on the move.
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:55 PM
Status: "King of the World" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Itinerant
5,202 posts, read 3,754,680 times
Reputation: 4083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Miaugie View Post
They make similar platforms using .223 /5.56 nato rounds, pistol rounds and some weird shotgun with 6+6+1 capacity. I'm not endorsing I just want to know your thoughts on their want your thoughts on their products.
The ONE advantage a bullpup has is that it's shorter overall length, the disadvantages are:-
  • the chamber is right next to your cheek so any catastrophic failure can be far more devastating than a regular rifle.
  • The charging handle is often in a location where you need to dismount the rifle to charge
  • Since the trigger/selector controls are in the standard position, there are longer linkages needed for them to operate as a "standard" configuration does, this introduces more play in the controls, which can result in selectors being safe when not, or not when on safe, trigger breaks are often not as crisp.
  • The balance for me is wrong, I expect a rifles balance point to be around the mid-point between my front and rear and positions, with the exception of the FN2000 and P90 (SBR, the regular length was front heavy) I've never found one that did not have a balance point behind my dominant hand. Mag changes are also more difficult, since you have to dismount the rifle to change magazines effectively, with the magazine being behind your dominant hand.
  • depending on the rifles construction, since the magazine is the lowest point of most rifles, this can lead to the rifle not being able to be comfortably fired prone.
The do look cool though, and since the Kel-Tec is front ejection, there's no problem with firing offhand and getting hot brass in your eye (which is a problem with side ejection bullpups when you want to minimize your exposure).


On Kel-Tec not my fave company, while I have had little exposure to their products, its because every time I've thought maybe they've improved and tried one, it's been disappointing. I know that others have had some good experiences, which is why I'll occasionally give them another whirl.

On the RFB, while I personally can't confirm this, the reports I'm seeing on it require less than trivial jams (anything that actuating the charging handle won't fix) require a field strip, or some creativity, since the ejection port is too deep to get a finger in to try to lever any stuck spent casing from it (or you have a finger like an Eye-Eye), the other alternative is through the Mag Well, however that's not exactly the simplest of things either.

On a 308 for a self defense platform, nope, not unless the world has ended as we know it and others have covered those issues here.

If you want a short car/truck gun, why not just go pay the $200 tax and get an SBR? You don't need accuracy at range, if you've just plugged a guy in the head at 300 or more yards, trying to prove imminent fear of death or serious injury could be difficult in such an event.

Last edited by Gungnir; 05-13-2012 at 07:48 PM.. Reason: P90 not P30
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:40 AM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,889,753 times
Reputation: 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
The ONE advantage a bullpup has is that it's shorter overall length, the disadvantages are:-
  • the chamber is right next to your cheek so any catastrophic failure can be far more devastating than a regular rifle.
  • The charging handle is often in a location where you need to dismount the rifle to charge
  • Since the trigger/selector controls are in the standard position, there are longer linkages needed for them to operate as a "standard" configuration does, this introduces more play in the controls, which can result in selectors being safe when not, or not when on safe, trigger breaks are often not as crisp.
  • The balance for me is wrong, I expect a rifles balance point to be around the mid-point between my front and rear and positions, with the exception of the FN2000 and P90 (SBR, the regular length was front heavy) I've never found one that did not have a balance point behind my dominant hand. Mag changes are also more difficult, since you have to dismount the rifle to change magazines effectively, with the magazine being behind your dominant hand.
  • depending on the rifles construction, since the magazine is the lowest point of most rifles, this can lead to the rifle not being able to be comfortably fired prone.
The do look cool though, and since the Kel-Tec is front ejection, there's no problem with firing offhand and getting hot brass in your eye (which is a problem with side ejection bullpups when you want to minimize your exposure).


On Kel-Tec not my fave company, while I have had little exposure to their products, its because every time I've thought maybe they've improved and tried one, it's been disappointing. I know that others have had some good experiences, which is why I'll occasionally give them another whirl.

On the RFB, while I personally can't confirm this, the reports I'm seeing on it require less than trivial jams (anything that actuating the charging handle won't fix) require a field strip, or some creativity, since the ejection port is too deep to get a finger in to try to lever any stuck spent casing from it (or you have a finger like an Eye-Eye), the other alternative is through the Mag Well, however that's not exactly the simplest of things either.

On a 308 for a self defense platform, nope, not unless the world has ended as we know it and others have covered those issues here.

If you want a short car/truck gun, why not just go pay the $200 tax and get an SBR? You don't need accuracy at range, if you've just plugged a guy in the head at 300 or more yards, trying to prove imminent fear of death or serious injury could be difficult in such an event.
For that matter, why not just put a folding stock on an AK-47?
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