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Old 10-03-2012, 09:18 AM
 
Location: occupied east coast
824 posts, read 1,849,106 times
Reputation: 1621

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For those who may recall, I recently had work done on a MKIV Series 70 Government model pistol.

As a result, I can only come to the conclusion that I should relegate the pistol to a true "beater" trunk gun, or replace the upper end, with a new Colt made factory unit.

Sooo, has anyone actually bought an upper end from Colt, and what was the approx. cost?

I truly have no idea, as their web site does not list slides, let alone assemblies.

Any ball park would be appreciated.

T.I.A.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:47 AM
 
19,122 posts, read 21,362,274 times
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maybe this can help?
Kittery Trading Post Used Guns Home

What happened to the gun you had work done on?

I am not really sure i know what your question is... Kittery is a cool place to know of even if i am wrong. When you have time play with their site.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:47 PM
Status: "King of the World" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Itinerant
5,188 posts, read 3,745,742 times
Reputation: 4060
Quote:
Originally Posted by banger View Post
For those who may recall, I recently had work done on a MKIV Series 70 Government model pistol.

As a result, I can only come to the conclusion that I should relegate the pistol to a true "beater" trunk gun, or replace the upper end, with a new Colt made factory unit.

Sooo, has anyone actually bought an upper end from Colt, and what was the approx. cost?

I truly have no idea, as their web site does not list slides, let alone assemblies.

Any ball park would be appreciated.

T.I.A.
I'm kind of confused by both this and the previous posting, for the following reason.

If this is intended to be some kind of museum piece, you've stated you're shooting the thing heavily, which will prohibit it being of high value during any sale, and obviously reduces it's attraction for collectors. At the moment, they're only marginally valuable (mint is fetching $1200 with all of the original packing and manual etc., VGC is $1k-$750 with low round counts prices are from a couple of years ago, they may be marginally higher now), in 20 years they may be worth something.

If this is intended to be a regular shooter, then where's the problem as long as it feeds, ejects, and can hit what you're aiming at when the boogerhook hits the bang button.

If you replace the slide and barrel, then you're not getting top book during a sale, it's no longer original, however you wouldn't be getting top book anyway if you're shooting it regularly enough to worry about the claw.

If it fires fine and hits the target, then why worry about getting a new slide and barrel when it isn't needed.

So you can see why I'm confused, you're not maintaining it for collection value using it how you have said you are, but, you want to replace it to 'stock' because a Smith did a bunch of work on it that's commonly performed on Government Model MkIV series 70's. While I understand the frustration with the smith, I think you're being a little OCD on how to deal with it, either keep the gun as a shooter with the work the smith has done (and only pay him for the work you requested or talk him to giving you a rebate or credit ideally), or get a replacement that you will not be firing if you want to keep it as an heirloom, because replacing the barrel and slide will not achieve that goal.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:11 PM
 
Location: occupied east coast
824 posts, read 1,849,106 times
Reputation: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
I'm kind of confused by both this and the previous posting, for the following reason.

If this is intended to be some kind of museum piece, you've stated you're shooting the thing heavily, which will prohibit it being of high value during any sale, and obviously reduces it's attraction for collectors. At the moment, they're only marginally valuable (mint is fetching $1200 with all of the original packing and manual etc., VGC is $1k-$750 with low round counts prices are from a couple of years ago, they may be marginally higher now), in 20 years they may be worth something.

If this is intended to be a regular shooter, then where's the problem as long as it feeds, ejects, and can hit what you're aiming at when the boogerhook hits the bang button.

If you replace the slide and barrel, then you're not getting top book during a sale, it's no longer original, however you wouldn't be getting top book anyway if you're shooting it regularly enough to worry about the claw.

If it fires fine and hits the target, then why worry about getting a new slide and barrel when it isn't needed.

So you can see why I'm confused, you're not maintaining it for collection value using it how you have said you are, but, you want to replace it to 'stock' because a Smith did a bunch of work on it that's commonly performed on Government Model MkIV series 70's. While I understand the frustration with the smith, I think you're being a little OCD on how to deal with it, either keep the gun as a shooter with the work the smith has done (and only pay him for the work you requested or talk him to giving you a rebate or credit ideally), or get a replacement that you will not be firing if you want to keep it as an heirloom, because replacing the barrel and slide will not achieve that goal.


O.C.D. perhaps (a little).

Not related in the original post was the fact that this is a Police Off Duty carry piece.

As such ZERO modifications are permitted outside of grips.

Now, I can convince you and the others readers that these alterations were only to enhance feeding and reliability.

If I were to ever enter a court room, you can guarantee that I would be branded a vicious killer who even went so far as to modify his gun to make it even more deadly!

It is for this reason that many departments (at least in the Northeast) have a zero tolerance for alterations.

Remember, when you are in a court room, you are not in there with "gun guys", you are in there with twelve people who were not smart enough to get out of jury duty.

Twelve people who's entire life experience with police work is watching every episode of "CHIPS" on television over 20 years ago.

Just as an aside, how many times have you heard someone say after a Police shooting, "why didn't the police just shoot the gun (or knife) out of his hand, why did they have to kill him".

For as EVERYONE knows, this is frequently done in the movies...and the movies wouldn't lie...would they.

Now, that's my story...and I'm sticking to it.

Last edited by banger; 10-03-2012 at 02:22 PM..
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Old 10-03-2012, 03:18 PM
Status: "King of the World" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Itinerant
5,188 posts, read 3,745,742 times
Reputation: 4060
Quote:
Originally Posted by banger View Post
O.C.D. perhaps (a little).

Not related in the original post was the fact that this is a Police Off Duty carry piece.

As such ZERO modifications are permitted outside of grips.

Now, I can convince you and the others readers that these alterations were only to enhance feeding and reliability.

If I were to ever enter a court room, you can guarantee that I would be branded a vicious killer who even went so far as to modify his gun to make it even more deadly!

It is for this reason that many departments (at least in the Northeast) have a zero tolerance for alterations.

Remember, when you are in a court room, you are not in there with "gun guys", you are in there with twelve people who were not smart enough to get out of jury duty.

Twelve people who's entire life experience with police work is watching every episode of "CHIPS" on television over 20 years ago.

Just as an aside, how many times have you heard someone say after a Police shooting, "why didn't the police just shoot the gun (or knife) out of his hand, why did they have to kill him".

For as EVERYONE knows, this is frequently done in the movies...and the movies wouldn't lie...would they.

Now, that's my story...and I'm sticking to it.
Ok that explains it, I just wasn't getting what you were trying to achieve, that's all.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:22 AM
 
25,631 posts, read 29,103,055 times
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Based on your previous post I don't see how many outside of a gunsmith would even notice the modification to the barrel unless it was field stripped and examined. Especially the gun noobs you are fearful of finding out.

Except for the reamming and throating everything else was just deburring through polish to remove sticking points.

If your that concerned buy a barrel and pop it in. Don't read why you would need a whole new upper.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:26 PM
 
Location: occupied east coast
824 posts, read 1,849,106 times
Reputation: 1621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogdad View Post
Based on your previous post I don't see how many outside of a gunsmith would even notice the modification to the barrel unless it was field stripped and examined. Especially the gun noobs you are fearful of finding out.

Except for the reamming and throating everything else was just deburring through polish to remove sticking points.

If your that concerned buy a barrel and pop it in. Don't read why you would need a whole new upper.

I don't know your experience in such matters, but allow me to attempt to educate the readers.

Bulldogdad, as you point out, many might not even notice the modifications done by the (so called)Gunsmith.

However, following a Police involved shooting the weapon used is held as evidence.

As a normal routine, the weapon is examined by an expert do determine the state of the weapon, (defective, altered, damaged, worn etc..).

Following this examination, any weapon would be held, and made available to any prosecutor, or in the event of a law suit, made available to a plaintiff's attorney and any experts he has available to examine the pistol.

Now, onto point, are these modifications a "fatal flaw", perhaps not.... BUT...you just introduced and element into a legal proceeding that should not have even existed.

You now have to defend using a firearm that was modified from it's original condition outside of any factory or department control.

It is for precisely these reasons that most (if not all) the departments in my area, refuse to allow modifications to duty weapons, outside of factory fixes or at the least through department trained and CERTIFIED armorers.

Remember, Truth is not always the most important element in a trial.

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...baffle them with B.S..

And...if the glove doesn't fit you must acquit.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:27 PM
 
19,122 posts, read 21,362,274 times
Reputation: 7313
Well I sure didn't know that last tid bit. But I would never ask the cops to shoot a gun out of a bad guys hand, and would prefer the cops waste any and all bad guys ASAP, because i am sick of the PC left releasing them on parole.

To bad your gun was hashed up..... maybe you should have said that to the smith if he was ...

I have a Kimber that ejected cases into my face... Shot that gun for 7 rnds and one case cut my eyebrow! Sent that gun in and they did a poor grind on the ejector, not the extractor, but it flings cases in a pile to my right just the same.

I think I learned my lesson with Limber too, and will trade that and some other guns add some cash and go for a Wilson Combat or like gun for a carry gun. I was trying to retire a WW2 vintage Remington Rand just because i felt like it.

I am totally sorry my info was of 0 use..... I just didn't know.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:45 PM
 
Location: occupied east coast
824 posts, read 1,849,106 times
Reputation: 1621
I was intending to post this as an edit to my above post, but decided to simply place another post.

By "round about" example of modification and how they are viewed.

If you were to send a firearm to Ruger for repair, the firearm will be examined to determine if it is within factory specifications.

If you had a "trigger job" the factory (without being asked) will replace the hammer and trigger with new parts and springs, to restore it to spec., at no cost.

If you send an early Blackhawk in (with the original hammer and trigger) it will have those components changed to bring it up to the NEW transfer bar ignition.

WHY?

Because, for the few dollars it will cost Ruger. They can look any jury in the eye and state...When the pistol left our factory, it was performing to factory specifications concerning safety and trigger pull weights.

So any unsafe "hair triggers" were unauthorized modification made without our knowledge, after leaving the factory.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:58 PM
 
19,122 posts, read 21,362,274 times
Reputation: 7313
Quote:
Originally Posted by banger View Post
I was intending to post this as an edit to my above post, but decided to simply place another post.

By "round about" example of modification and how they are viewed.

If you were to send a firearm to Ruger for repair, the firearm will be examined to determine if it is within factory specifications.

If you had a "trigger job" the factory (without being asked) will replace the hammer and trigger with new parts and springs, to restore it to spec., at no cost.

If you send an early Blackhawk in (with the original hammer and trigger) it will have those components changed to bring it up to the NEW transfer bar ignition.

WHY?

Because, for the few dollars it will cost Ruger. They can look any jury in the eye and state...When the pistol left our factory, it was performing to factory specifications concerning safety and trigger pull weights.

So any unsafe "hair triggers" were unauthorized modification made without our knowledge, after leaving the factory.
Yes i agree with all you stated in these posts concerning law as foolish as law can sometimes be.

I own a old Ruger Bear Cat that has no transfer bar and won't for so long as I own it. You simply load one, skip one and load 4 more placing the hammer down on the empty cylinder.

I don't see me using that Bear cat as a defense gun in this life time anyway. It is just one of a number of .22's i have for fun, and the larger stuff is reserved for bad guys.
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