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Old 03-18-2014, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
7,848 posts, read 7,835,120 times
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Well, if the federal government is going to force every state to recognize same sex marriages, then it logically follows they should all recognize both concealed & open carry.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonesuch View Post
Compare this to Texas, where a score of 175 points of a possible 250 is required to pass, on a timed course of fire at very close range.
Ok, maybe I exaggerated a bit. You do actually have to hit the target for the most part. I don't know the exact technical requirements, but you shoot 48 times in sets of 6 shots. The first few sets of six at 7ft(!!), then farther away working out to 25ft. I don't think there is a written time limit, but in addition to a minimum score the range officer has to sign off on your competency. If you are taking so long you are holding up the entire class the officer may decide you aren't competent enough to sign off on.

Another issue is that Tennessee law makes no distinction between open and concealed carry. You may not be in possession of a handgun in public "with the intent to go armed" (i.e., it's loaded or you are within easy reach of ammo) without a handgun carry permit. Once you have the HCP you may carry open or concealed except for restricted locations (courts, schools, signed private property, etc.).


Back on topic, I'm on the fence regarding federal law mandating license reciprocity, mainly because I haven't had the time to fully think about it. I don't see it passing any time soon, so it isn't a priority. On one hand, recent SCOTUS decisions indicate that the feds won't be able to overly restrict carry without a constitutional amendment, and the ability to carry across state lines without worrying about reciprocity is a plus. On the other hand, if a formerly normal person with a CCW permit goes off the deep end and instigates another tragedy like Sandy Hook, a precedent like universal reciprocity could open the door for reprisals like universal registration or universally severe limitations.
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Delaware County, PA
2,380 posts, read 2,089,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrels View Post
House bill would grant universal concealed carry reciprocity in all 50 states

It would be great to see this happen. I've never contacted a senator or legislator office before but this might be where I start.
It would be great since LEO's already have the ability regardless of the local and state laws.
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:27 PM
 
Location: West Phoenix
769 posts, read 891,737 times
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One thing that I did not see mentioned, if you have to get a permit, how is this a right ? does it not make it a privilege ?
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:29 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,484,664 times
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3 elements make a weapon functional.
possession
training
volition to use it
without all 3 its useless.
btw when you use a weapon-- unlike in the movies, its not the end of your problems-- its the beginning
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:33 AM
 
1,507 posts, read 1,613,123 times
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Is all show, just like repealing the AHCA is show. Never going to happen. I think even if you got the senate the President would veto it. If you did get it signed into law you would get several states that went to the SCOTUS under states rights. I would not hold my hand over you know what waiting for that one.
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:53 AM
 
Location: Earth
4,506 posts, read 5,264,021 times
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How about we just get rid of laws that are infringing on our 2nd Amendment rights? Why do we need additional laws and permits to exercise rights already granted by the Constitution?

If someone is not to be trusted with a firearm then they should not be free! After all, they could also use any other items to harm if free as well, right? Knives, sticks, cars etc..

Once you become an adult you should be able to buy and carry a firearm until you prove yourself unworthy...at which point you will pay the price of irresponsibility.
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,774 posts, read 3,686,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West Phx Native View Post
One thing that I did not see mentioned, if you have to get a permit, how is this a right ? does it not make it a privilege ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborgt800 View Post
How about we just get rid of laws that are infringing on our 2nd Amendment rights? Why do we need additional laws and permits to exercise rights already granted by the Constitution?

If someone is not to be trusted with a firearm then they should not be free! After all, they could also use any other items to harm if free as well, right? Knives, sticks, cars etc..

Once you become an adult you should be able to buy and carry a firearm until you prove yourself unworthy...at which point you will pay the price of irresponsibility.
The constitution guarantees that you have the right to "keep and bear arms". But it is silent on the issue of where you may keep and bear those arms. For example, keeping and bearing arms on your own property is allowed almost everywhere (by multiple court decrees), but you do NOT have the right to bear arms in my private living room unless I personally grant that right to you. So if I don't know and trust you, you will either disarm or you will go away. I'm fairly confident that every other gun owner in this forum feels the same way. Would you allow someone you don't know to go armed inside your house?

Lots of other places adhere to the "living room rule". I.e., if I can stop you from going armed into a private living room, then a business owner has the right to stop you from going armed into a private business. Laws are needed to address this issue.

What about walking around in public? Again, the courts agree that you have the right to go armed on your private property, but what about walking down a crowded urban street packing a loaded and concealed handgun in an IWB holster? What about open-carrying that same handgun in an OWB holster? What about walking down a crowded urban street with a loaded AR-15 and body armor? If the "public" (i.e., the voters and/or representatives from a specific area) decides they don't want people walking down their street armed, then do they have the right to stop them? Either way, laws are needed to address this issue.

My feelings on this issue are that guns are as dangerous as cars and should be regulated similarly:
- Up until the time you have proven yourself irresponsible and forfeit your rights, you have the right to keep and bear arms on your private property and any other private property that allows it. Same with cars... my 9-year-old has driven a car on private property, and he has shot pistols, rifles, and shotguns on the same private property (all while closely supervised).
- If you want to go armed in public then you must prove that you are responsible and won't kill someone. With cars, you must reach a certain age, pass a test, and be licensed by the state. Same with guns; pass a test showing you understand the laws of when deadly force is allowed (I'm still amazed at the number of people who don't understand this concept), prove you can handle a gun without shooting yourself in the foot, and submit to a background check to prove you are old enough and aren't a felon who has forfeited rights. My 9-year-old may NOT carry a gun in public, just like he may not drive a car down a public street.

As for a national reciprocity with a carry license similar to a driving license, I still have mixed feelings. Come to think of it, there have been relatively recent attempts to go from national reciprocity to a national driving license.
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:25 PM
 
7,282 posts, read 8,401,735 times
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The most telling of things is that so far there has been no definitive test in court that removes the various municipal or state level infringements to buying much less carrying concealed, firearms.

The courts have decided on many other issues yet this issue being much older than the others, remains undecided.

There is a reason for that.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:02 PM
Status: "King of the World" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Itinerant
5,208 posts, read 3,756,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
The constitution guarantees that you have the right to "keep and bear arms". But it is silent on the issue of where you may keep and bear those arms. For example, keeping and bearing arms on your own property is allowed almost everywhere (by multiple court decrees), but you do NOT have the right to bear arms in my private living room unless I personally grant that right to you. So if I don't know and trust you, you will either disarm or you will go away. I'm fairly confident that every other gun owner in this forum feels the same way. Would you allow someone you don't know to go armed inside your house?
If scope is not tailored in a clause in any legal document, then the assumption is that the scope that applies to that clause is the scope of the document. As the 2nd Amendment is a restriction on government, then the assumption is that in any location that federal law applies, then you have a constitutional right to bear arms. This means on personal property, property of others who do not object, and common property (roads, plaza's marketplaces etc.), on private property then the property owners rule abides, if they permit you to carry you may carry, if they prohibit you carrying, you may choose to not carry or not enter that property.

Here is an easy test, if the government prohibited free speech somewhere and you would object to that prohibition, then you should be able to carry a gun in that somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
Lots of other places adhere to the "living room rule". I.e., if I can stop you from going armed into a private living room, then a business owner has the right to stop you from going armed into a private business. Laws are needed to address this issue.
Well the way things are going as far as private businesses, then I'd argue we're developing the chance of having a good case that in public accommodations, general local law would apply, and not personal property options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
What about walking around in public? Again, the courts agree that you have the right to go armed on your private property, but what about walking down a crowded urban street packing a loaded and concealed handgun in an IWB holster? What about open-carrying that same handgun in an OWB holster? What about walking down a crowded urban street with a loaded AR-15 and body armor? If the "public" (i.e., the voters and/or representatives from a specific area) decides they don't want people walking down their street armed, then do they have the right to stop them? Either way, laws are needed to address this issue.
Covered by the Constitution, it's not private property therefore the constitution applies, you have the right to bear arms. Now, how you bear arms can be regulated, the important point is regulated is not prohibition, thus by law concealed carry could be prohibited, that does not prevent you bearing arms, just concealed carrying, open carry could be prohibited, that does not prevent you bearing arms, just carrying a weapon openly. However if laws are structured as to prohibit the right to bear arms then those laws are de facto unconstitutional, so for instance if open carry is prohibited, but concealed carry requires a permit, then you cannot lawfully bear arms without a permit, then laws are so structured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
My feelings on this issue are that guns are as dangerous as cars and should be regulated similarly:
- Up until the time you have proven yourself irresponsible and forfeit your rights, you have the right to keep and bear arms on your private property and any other private property that allows it. Same with cars... my 9-year-old has driven a car on private property, and he has shot pistols, rifles, and shotguns on the same private property (all while closely supervised).
- If you want to go armed in public then you must prove that you are responsible and won't kill someone. With cars, you must reach a certain age, pass a test, and be licensed by the state. Same with guns; pass a test showing you understand the laws of when deadly force is allowed (I'm still amazed at the number of people who don't understand this concept), prove you can handle a gun without shooting yourself in the foot, and submit to a background check to prove you are old enough and aren't a felon who has forfeited rights. My 9-year-old may NOT carry a gun in public, just like he may not drive a car down a public street.
Except the government has no legal standing to regulate firearms on government or common property, regardless of whether or not they regulate transportation methods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
As for a national reciprocity with a carry license similar to a driving license, I still have mixed feelings. Come to think of it, there have been relatively recent attempts to go from national reciprocity to a national driving license.
There is no need for national reciprocity, if all states returned to constitutional protections. For instance constitutionally I can carry in Alaska (no permit required to concealed or open carry), if I travel to California, under the constitution there would be no prohibition on my carrying. Whether or not the 2nd Amendment was intended to be incorporated against the states or not is debateable, however McDonald incorporated the 2nd Amendment under the 14th Amendments due process clause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
The most telling of things is that so far there has been no definitive test in court that removes the various municipal or state level infringements to buying much less carrying concealed, firearms.

The courts have decided on many other issues yet this issue being much older than the others, remains undecided.

There is a reason for that.
Yes that reason being that until McDonald the 2nd Amendment was not incorporated as the 1st, 4th, 5th were. Therefore state level purchasing requirements had no grounds for challenge. However post McDonald things are legally different, I'd not be at all surprised to see Connecticut challenged on the legality of their current legislation, California has already had it's concealed carry laws challenged (Court overturns concealed-carry rule in blow to California gun law | Reuters) I'd expect that California gun owners would now begin to go after other statutes.
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