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Old 04-06-2014, 03:52 PM
 
13 posts, read 12,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
What does this mean?
Means you have a "Expert" on your hands.
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:40 PM
 
5,221 posts, read 2,377,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooter 1 View Post
Means you have a "Expert" on your hands.
I'm sorry, I should have been more specific.

What type of qualification or competition is this? What is the possible score? How is it scored? What exactly does 345 mean?
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Old 04-07-2014, 07:10 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,991 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Land Rivers View Post
Not a member!

Sounds like USMC pistol qualification to me. Who cares now though. You're all "experts".
Expert...someone not to be trusted once the claim is made by them. That said, I think it was a play on words.
I'm still waiting to hear specifics of shooter1's involvement in the m45 program.
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Old 04-07-2014, 11:02 AM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,035,921 times
Reputation: 3138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
AK over AR because .308 caliber (7.62mm) holes are bigger than .223 (5.56mm) caliber holes, and 123g bullets weigh more than 55g bullets, and big game cartridges are more powerful than varmint cartridges
.
Robust reliability:AKs are like Klingon tomahawks, ARs are like fencing foils.
so much ignorance here. The .223 doesn't do devastating damage simply via the hole it makes. The round hits and tumbles/breaks apart once it's inside the target, creating a huge wound channel and greatly increasing your odds of making a critical hit on vitals. That's how it works, and that's why it works so well. The wounds made by .223 are devastating, make no mistake about it. Our army wouldn't still be using it if it was not able to kill people, and there are plenty of reports of kills made with .223 out of 14 inch barrels at 400+ yards over in the sandbox.

AR's are very reliable. There is plenty of evidence for that so I won't go into it here. Basically, have some lube with you and you don't even have to ever clean it.
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Old 04-07-2014, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Sinkholeville
1,489 posts, read 1,349,836 times
Reputation: 2291
Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
so much ignorance here. The .223 doesn't do devastating damage simply via the hole it makes. The round hits and tumbles/breaks apart once it's inside the target, creating a huge wound channel and greatly increasing your odds of making a critical hit on vitals. That's how it works, and that's why it works so well. The wounds made by .223 are devastating, make no mistake about it. Our army wouldn't still be using it if it was not able to kill people, and there are plenty of reports of kills made with .223 out of 14 inch barrels at 400+ yards over in the sandbox.

AR's are very reliable. There is plenty of evidence for that so I won't go into it here. Basically, have some lube with you and you don't even have to ever clean it.
Ignorance, huh? That's not really necessary, is it?

The 7.62x39 round also tumbles, or rather, yaws, making a much larger devastating wound.
In addition, the air pocket just inside the tip is designed to deform upon contact, insuring this yaw.

In every other caliber, retained weight is desired as opposed to falling apart, but the fragmentation of the small and fragile little varmint bullet is touted as an advantage; yet you will not find any self-defense or hunting cartridges designed for this result. So they settle for wounding, not killing, and they sacrifice penetration and energy so they can punch holes in soft paper to instill false confidence in young underpaid soldiers (who can call in air strikes).

But, pound for pound, a soldier can carry far more little varmint cartridges than intermediate size cartridges such as 7.62x39. And these little varmint cartridges recoil less, making them better suited to little weak girlie men who can't carry much. And they work in lightweight toy-like guns.

They certainly lack the "killing power" of larger rounds, because they are designed to wound, not necessarily to kill, under the theory that a wounded soldier takes two more out of the fight to rescue him. This is why the USSR followed us with their AK74 chambered in 5.45x39, similar to our 5.56x45. I prefer not to wound anyone, human or animal. And I very rarely carry 5 or more 30 round mags very far. I don't need to.

Now, in addition to low recoil and light weight, the little varmint round remains accurate at longer ranges even though it has lost energy and thus momentum; this velocity and accuracy makes it better at inflicting wounds beyond the accurate range of the 7.62x39, which is good for war, bad for hunting; that's why it remains illegal for even thin-skinned deer in some hunting areas. It's good for gun games designed around it, if I wanted to punch paper at a couple hundred yards, I'd accept the little varmint round.

Bottom line, if you want to target little varmints several hundred yards away, or if you want to wound people or game animals, travel light with low recoil, go ahead with the little varmint round.

If you want to fight against determined men within more normal ranges, if you will use it for self defense, if you will use it for hunting, if you want the ability to turn cover into concealment via penetration, move up to the intermediate sized 7.62x39. Unless you can move up to full size cartridges, such as .308/7.62x51 NATO, in which you get a truly excellent hunting round which retains energy & momentum at extended ranges, penetrating typical cover, and killing. And a heavy load in a heavy gun with lots of recoil; still, it's a favorite for hunters, as is the .30-30 which shares intermediate caliber ballistics with the 7.62x39.

That's why snipers don't compromise with intermediate or little varmint rounds. It's a matter of compromise. Icepick or tomahawk. Each of these popular calibers enjoys different advantages.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Im...ifleWPcopy.jpg

Or, just call people ignorant who disagree with you, whatever you prefer.

Last edited by ChuteTheMall; 04-07-2014 at 06:14 PM..
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Sinkholeville
1,489 posts, read 1,349,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Land Rivers View Post
Name these grips for $500 Alex?

Those are real purty 1911 grips, VZ Aliens; how shall we transfer the $500?


Last edited by ChuteTheMall; 04-07-2014 at 06:36 PM..
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Sinkholeville
1,489 posts, read 1,349,836 times
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I edited when you posted about those VZs. Almost fast enough, but not worth $500.
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Old 04-07-2014, 07:26 PM
 
5,221 posts, read 2,377,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
They certainly lack the "killing power" of larger rounds, because they are designed to wound, not necessarily to kill, under the theory that a wounded soldier takes two more out of the fight to rescue him. This is why the USSR followed us with their AK74 chambered in 5.45x39, similar to our 5.56x45. I prefer not to wound anyone, human or animal. And I very rarely carry 5 or more 30 round mags very far. I don't need to.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will call bravo sierra on this. Got any evidence to back up this assertion?
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Sinkholeville
1,489 posts, read 1,349,836 times
Reputation: 2291
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will call bravo sierra on this. Got any evidence to back up this assertion?
I know it's controversial, there are two valid sides to this argument, and it will never go away; doubters (like those *******s at Snopes) call it a myth, but logic requires that it remain a consideration.

Believe what you will, but l didn't just make all this up:

Quote:
The rounds currently issued as standard to SAS troops for their rifles are 5.56 mm calibre. In future, the troopers will be given 7.62 mm rounds – which are almost twice as heavy and designed to kill with a single shot.
Last night, a regiment insider said: ‘The shoot-to-wound policy was based on the assumption that once he was wounded an enemy combatant would stop fighting, and so would his comrades to give him first aid.{snip}
[SIZE=5]‘The difference in killing power between 5.56 mm and 7.62 mm is startling – the heavier rounds pack so much more of a punch.’[/SIZE]{snip}
[SIZE=5]Tory MP Patrick Mercer, a former Army commander, said: ‘The 7.62 mm round is a good, meaty bullet and will drop your enemy with a single hit. The 5.56 mm cannot compete with it for stopping power and, according to many soldiers, the round has fallen short in Iraq and Afghanistan.
[/SIZE]
Read more: SAS to use bigger bullets to kill enemy outright after claiming 'shoot-to-wound' policy put their lives at risk | Mail Online






Quote:
It is not the legal goal of military forces to kill the enemy, despite what is actively promoted through propaganda. The goal is to injure the enemy. The reasoning behind this thinking is if a soldier is killed on the battlefield, it costs nothing to treat him. If a soldier is injured, it now takes two or more other people to carry him off, and another to treat his injures, and requires resources to transport him back to a medical unit.
{snip} The .223 or 5.56 specific hunting round can't be used on anything bigger than a coyote. For hunting purposes, the round is classed as varmint use only. Hunting deer or larger is illegal in most states. It is also mentioned quite frequently that a human is equivalent to a deer sized object.
Myths of military full metal jacket ammunition. - CNN iReport
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,110 posts, read 857,862 times
Reputation: 1130
So in comparison my 40sw carbine is more deadly then the 223 carbine?
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