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Old 06-10-2014, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Kihei, Maui
177 posts, read 255,315 times
Reputation: 227

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I'm not going to suggest any individual firearm but just give you some thoughts. any 22 cal even though dangerous is not a firearm for defense in adverse conditions (intruder), Revolvers are really not suitable for CC unless carried in a purse. A shot gun will be longer and harder to use in confined spaces (small apartment halls). For a small stature person a 20 ga semi auto with a shorter barrel 22" with cylinder choke is the most effective firearm 20 ga = aprox. 67 cal any round you place in it will stop a person. For home defense you can remove the three shot plug and get 4 in the tube. If you want an effective shotgun that you don't need to shoot choose a pump just the cycle noise will scare off most persons. In either case get proper training from an instructor at a range. get some dummy shells for whatever firearm you buy so you can practice at home functioning the firearm with out using live ammo.

With a 3yo in the house keep close tabs on the ammo and unload it when your not holding it. when away from the house use a lock to secure it. Get a cash box and lock the ammo in it and Use a different one for the firearm.

If you are using a semi pistol load the magazine and keep it out of the action at home the action should remain open with no magazine in it.

Whatever you do get some expert advice, Talk to close friends, family, professionals, Gun club members, NRA Instructors, read some books, etc. every case is different.
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:38 AM
 
Location: SWUS
5,414 posts, read 7,659,183 times
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Carrying a revolver in a purse is a terrible idea. You ever see the inside of a purse? lol.

Not sure about using a shotgun indoors, ESPECIALLY with a choke. That turns the shot into a giant slug (with LOTS of mass) that will definitely go through walls, especially since the minimum shell I've seen recommended is #4 (with #1 and 00 being the next most common.) Despite an innate human desire to not wreck one's own possessions, it would likely be best to not use a choke at all if you feel you have to use a shotgun for self defense.

You also do not need to "cycle" a pump shotgun to intimidate someone. By the time you're pulling a firearm in self defense it should already have a round chambered, and the last thing that I'd recommend is spooking a jumpy/adrenalin-filled wrongdoer. Might not turn out very well.

There are other cons to using shotguns as well. Many semi-auto shotguns are recoil or inertia-operated, which means that you really do need to have the thing shouldered in order for it to work at an optimum level (same thing with limp wristing a polymer-framed pistol... it can cause issues with feeding/ejecting and whatnot). Due to this, even the shortest-barreled shotgun you can purchase will still be much longer than a carbine rifle and much, much longer still than a handgun. On the other hand, unless you practice A LOT, it would be hard to overcome the adrenalin and loss of fine motor control needed to pump a shotgun, which does require a fair bit of force. Short stroking will have the same effects as not shouldering a semi-auto shotgun properly, running the risk of feed/ejection issues at a critical time where a second shot may be hampered by a jam.

Lighter-weight bullets, even though they move faster, lose their momentum through barriers much faster and makes them a much better option for self defense. They also have the benefit of having MUCH more energy to impart into a target than a heavier, slower bullet in many cases.

I use a carbine rifle for home defense. While it is indeed harder to maneuver with than a handgun, both the mass and diameter of the projectile is smaller and loses energy much quicker through barriers like drywall/studs/people in addition to losing more mass when passing through these barriers. Meanwhile, my chosen handgun self-defense round will likely clog with debris at the hollow point and behave in the same way as a regular slug would.

That, and I'll take being the hearing damage over the increased risk of causing major accidental damage to something or someone.
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Old 06-11-2014, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Kihei, Maui
177 posts, read 255,315 times
Reputation: 227
Any firearm you use you shold have practiced with enough so all functioning should be in motor memory.

The cycle noise is only effective before you are in a face to face situation. (intruder on other side of door or wall)

Once in a face to face the firearm should be loaded, live, (off safe), and aimed (pointed)

Since the poster is purchasing the suitability of different actions of shotguns (gas vs recoil) would be taken into account.

As for very close range (less than 10')the choke properties of the shot string do not come into play. it may open up to a 5" circle at best But even #8 shot running at 1200fps 7/8 oz carries a great deal of knockdown power. There are load made to open up faster.

Single projectiles can go through multiple new construction walls if they are not firewalls (concrete block or poured construction. Well documented (check drive by shootings). So they can be dangerous to neighbors and other home occupants.

At slightly longer ranges (above 20') 0 and 00 buck is effective against multiple intruders as the spread and the number of projectiles 9 to 13 32 cal projectiles for each shot. That is what Law Enforcement shotguns are loaded with.

As for room damage repair replacing one or two half sheets of drywall is not a consideration I would worry about at that moment. Pulling the trigger and taking a life is the real worry and consideration. We need to remember that in the situation of an intruder, making him/her totally unable to function in the fastest time is the goal. Having 3, 5, or 20 rounds really doesn't matter (for a single intruder) if they don't hit the target and disable it. I hear of many shootouts between good and bad guys where 20 to 50 rounds are fired and there are only minor injuries on either side. This is very dangerous thought in a personal defense situation. The hunters code One Shot One Kill should be the thought. If you are not willing/able to take the shot/pull the trigger knowing this you should use a different deterrent device.
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Sinkholeville
1,489 posts, read 1,358,772 times
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Keep it simple for a newbie, just a revolver.

To shoot it, pull the trigger. Repeat as necessary.

A semiauto like a Glock is also simple, just pull the trigger to shoot it.



To load or unload either type, push either the mag release or cylinder release on the side. Similar.

Dump out either the spent mag or the spent shells, replace with live ammo, and close the cylinder or rack the slide. Simple enough.

To shoot it again, pull the trigger again.

Keep it simple for a newbie.

Even if you later move up to more advanced weapon systems, you'll still want a simple pistol.
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:45 PM
 
854 posts, read 903,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanJP View Post
I hope you aren't serious about a .22 or pellet pistol for a firearm whose intended purpose is self defense.

If you were, that would be ridiculous.
No not for self defense, just for practice... Not a bad option for somebody who has never handled firearms. They move up to a heavier caliber. Actually I disagree about a .22 not being a decent choice for self defense, it's better than nothing. Maybe something like a Kel Tec PMR .22 WMR, 30 rounds of .22 mag is not a bad option especially if you can shoot it more accurately than a larger caliber pistol. I hope you aren't suggesting that I don't know just as much about firearms as you do. The original poster was asking what the best handgun for a newbie was. Not what is the best self defense gun for a newbie. I would recommend a .22 lr for starters because its cheap to shoot and in a pinch works just fine as a self defense weapon. Loaded it with CCI Velocitor or Stingers I think it would be a viable defense weapon. If you hit center of mass with one of those rounds, good night.

Last edited by bad apples; 06-16-2014 at 12:54 PM..
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Sinkholeville
1,489 posts, read 1,358,772 times
Reputation: 2291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcs15 View Post
I m a newbie with guns and fired one for the first time the other day. It was a Sig 9MM. Problem was loading was a PITA. I want a gun for protection and possibly a CC also. Could have both. I have a three year old and restraining order against someone I don't wish to discuss. I want something in the home since it is just us, and our Saint. Saint is for warning,but if that doesn't deter them, I wish to have something I can use and is accurate.
Let's take another look at the original post, the requirements are for protection at home and possibly also for concealed carry. That rules out most shotguns, at least for a newbie. Another problem was loading a Sig 9mm, that rules out semiautos for this newbie's very first gun.

That leaves only revolvers.

Anything from S&W or Ruger will work, just need to compromise between big and heavy with nice sights for training and home defense, or small and light with minimal sights for pocket carry.
Heaviness seems to mask recoil, that's often very important for a newbie's first gun.

So, I suggest visiting ranges which rent revolvers and trying as many as possible, both large and small.
Keep it simple, stick to .38 SPL. See which size and weight feels right, and fact that no matter what you choose, you'll soon find a need to add a second gun.

I'll suggest any S&W K-frame in .38 spl with a 4" barrel for home defense and learning to shoot as the first choice, followed by a S&W J-frame with 2" barrel for consistent concealed carry, and practice with it both!
There are many other great choices, but at least try both of these before you decide.



Or get an UpLULA (magazine loading tool) and revisit semiautos.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Iowa
190 posts, read 144,721 times
Reputation: 385
I received the same advice about revolvers, when I purchased my first gun. Within a week, I traded it in for a semiautomatic. I took a hundred fifty dollar haircut for not buying the best gun for me at the start. An hour or three with a good instructor will teach the rudiments of safe handgun handling, and help prevent unlearning bad habits at a later time.
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Old 06-20-2014, 02:39 PM
 
Location: SWUS
5,414 posts, read 7,659,183 times
Reputation: 5781
Quote:
Originally Posted by bad apples View Post
No not for self defense, just for practice... Not a bad option for somebody who has never handled firearms. They move up to a heavier caliber. Actually I disagree about a .22 not being a decent choice for self defense, it's better than nothing. Maybe something like a Kel Tec PMR .22 WMR, 30 rounds of .22 mag is not a bad option especially if you can shoot it more accurately than a larger caliber pistol. I hope you aren't suggesting that I don't know just as much about firearms as you do. The original poster was asking what the best handgun for a newbie was. Not what is the best self defense gun for a newbie. I would recommend a .22 lr for starters because its cheap to shoot and in a pinch works just fine as a self defense weapon. Loaded it with CCI Velocitor or Stingers I think it would be a viable defense weapon. If you hit center of mass with one of those rounds, good night.
Better than nothing, but not optimal. OP *did* mention self defense. That is why so many are suggesting something larger. It is entirely possible to start out on a normal SD caliber and be fine, my first was a .45 compact (would not recommend).

.22 anything is not that great for self defense. Load it in a pinch and get rim lock. Can hang fire or just not fire altogether when you need it. Even with Velocitors, Stingers, or Minimags, you're very likely to have to shoot more than once, since .22LR has very little muzzle energy, fragments, and can be hampered or deflected more than other cartridges can be.

I'm not suggesting that anyone knows less about firearms than I do, but I'm still mortified at someone "in the know" even entertaining the idea of using a .22 anything for self defense.
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