Do these vids give accurate accounts of the shotgun? (shells, bullet, target)
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Pretty much, shotguns ain't no joke. Especially the Saiga. I would take a pump or semi auto shotgun over anything for home defense. Shoot a concrete block with a load of OO buckshot and you'll see why, wear eye protection! Nothing has the power of a shotgun at close range. 12 Gauge Slugs can shoot through a level II MAYBE a level III bullet proof vest at close range and even iF it doesn't the person is probably going to die from the concussion or be in the hospital for months. Nobody takes a shotgun blast at close range and continues what they are doing.
Last edited by bad apples; 05-22-2014 at 04:41 AM..
Why did they invent buckshot, when a single projectile like slug will do for medium to big game.
Because back when they "invented" buckshot all shotguns were smoothbore and the self-stabilizing slugs didn't exist. Shotguns were designed to shoot loose shot, and that's it. They were the same as smooth-bore muskets except with larger diameter barrels. You used small shot for small birds, medium shot for small game/large birds, and big shot for "bucks". Yes, you could shoot a slug out of the earliest shotguns, but it would have the range/accuracy of a smooth-bore musket with a huge ball.
Maybe he means 10yds or more. But even then, if say like only half the pellets hit you, is that enough?
even at 10 yards the spread is small, think the size of a baseball. You can still easily miss. If only half the pellets make impact then you likely missed vitals. Still would suck for the person being shot, obviously.
It is noteworthy that both submachine guns and shotguns have gone/are headed the way of the dinosaur when it comes to professionally clearing houses. Short barreled m4's are the weapon of choice. Super easy follow up shots, minimal recoil, easy to move around with, horrific wounding capability, no big issue with overpenetration(counter intuitive) and 30 rounds on tap. Hard to beat.
Best use of a shotgun in combat is clearing a room full of pukes in short order!
A 5.56 m4 will do much better. You can only hit 1 person at a time at room-distance with a shotgun, and the 5.56 carbine will offer much faster target transitions. Both kill things dead.
The shotgun comes into its own when versatility is thrown into the mix. The 12ga shotgun is capable of reliably killing any animal on this continent and doing so "well".
Hunt mice with #9 shot, or hunt brown bear with 3" Brenneke slugs.
Buckshot sees most usage by police/military and by hunters in the South who shoot at close distances, especially in states that allow running deer with dogs.
Also, a shotgun is...destructive. The projectiles expand to about 1" across and greater in the case of soft Foster style "Wal-Mart" slugs, and often only penetrate to 10-14" due to massive deformation (Brenneke's penetrate MUCH further). The wounds caused by shotgun slugs are similar to large black-powder "balls" from centuries gone by. Very, very ugly. Buckshot on the other hand provides relatively small wound-tracts, but a lot of them. Shotguns are just nasty. If you said "This guy wants to kill you, he will kick your door in, you have 1 cartridge...what'cha want?", I would want a 12ga shotgun that I trusted and a foster slug or 00 buck (either).
Where the 5.56 carbine overtakes the shotgun is...you don't know how far away the perp is, or who many of them there are, or if they have body armor, or if there will be a hostage situation, or if you will be injured and need to run the gun 1-handed or otherwise physically compromised and unable to manage recoil as normal, or any other number of things. This is why the M4 5.56 carbine has by and large began to replace the shotgun as the "one long gun" a patrol officer carries, as well as what many entry teams use, except to blow locks/doors.
Further, the shotgun is the most difficult weapon I have ever run. Reloading is an art, and still slow (if you aren't shooting...you better be loading!), switching load-types takes some slight of hand unless you want to dump the rounds on the ground (often the best call), and many other things need to be taken into account with the shotgun that the rifle/pistol do not factor with. If a shotgun is your weapon of choice for home or self-defense, PRACTICE! Reloads, ammo type switches, pattern it with your preferred buck (find out what it likes) at 5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,etc. yards. A pattern that would fit on a dinnerplate at 25 yards may not fit on a posterboard at 30 yards. Patterns do not follow this "linear" rule of expansion all the way out. No, they tend to fall apart on an exponential curve, in my experience.
Pretty much, shotguns ain't no joke. Especially the Saiga. I would take a pump or semi auto shotgun over anything for home defense. Shoot a concrete block with a load of OO buckshot and you'll see why, wear eye protection! Nothing has the power of a shotgun at close range. 12 Gauge Slugs can shoot through a level II MAYBE a level III bullet proof vest at close range and even iF it doesn't the person is probably going to die from the concussion or be in the hospital for months. Nobody takes a shotgun blast at close range and continues what they are doing.
Strongly disagree. Also, I run level IV plate. I don't even have soft armor. Of course, that takes 5.56/.308 out of the running, as well, but my point is, lots of people run plate instead of soft, now days. Also, no, the concussion from the slug on soft armor isn't fun at all, but it's not at all likely to be lethal or require more than an out-patient visit. Cracked ribs is the likely diagnosis, along with bruising and an ugly hematoma.
A 5.56 m4 will do much better. You can only hit 1 person at a time at room-distance with a shotgun, and the 5.56 carbine will offer much faster target transitions. Both kill things dead.
Snip~
You never shot into a flock of sparrows or a mound full of rats before, have you? One blast takes them out. These ain't grandpas 28" vent-rib full choke barrels here. Many LE SBS have a 12" or 14" barrel.
Pretty much, shotguns ain't no joke. Especially the Saiga. I would take a pump or semi auto shotgun over anything for home defense. Shoot a concrete block with a load of OO buckshot and you'll see why, wear eye protection! Nothing has the power of a shotgun at close range. 12 Gauge Slugs can shoot through a level II MAYBE a level III bullet proof vest at close range and even iF it doesn't the person is probably going to die from the concussion or be in the hospital for months. Nobody takes a shotgun blast at close range and continues what they are doing.
You never shot into a flock of sparrows or a mound full of rats before, have you? One blast takes them out. These ain't grandpas 28" vent-rib full choke barrels here. Many LE SBS have a 12" or 14" barrel.
At across the room distances, you cannot hit more then one person with a shotgun blast, I don't care how short your barrel is.
And have you ever shot a rat with a 5.56? I've shot woodchucks, and their usually in more then one piece when I get to them.
At across the room distances, you cannot hit more then one person with a shotgun blast, I don't care how short your barrel is.
And have you ever shot a rat with a 5.56? I've shot woodchucks, and their usually in more then one piece when I get to them.
Fire three to five rounds randomly aimed into a room. The people in it and the damage it creates to surrounding structure is SEVERE.
A .17 HMR with a 17 grain V-Max turns chucks inside out. A 5.56x45mm or 7.62x51mm with the same ballistic tip bullet leaves a blood spray and pile.
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