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Old 06-16-2014, 04:18 AM
 
Location: WI
3,805 posts, read 8,513,254 times
Reputation: 2219

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
Honestly, taking the course really opened my eyes to a lot of things and possibilities. One instructor I talked to before taking the course said that a lot of people in our state, after taking the course and finding out about all the laws, decide NOT to carry a weapon! That is because laws governing deadly force are so complex. The devil is really in the details, and if you ever use deadly force, you had better be real certain that it was necessary, because even just drawing your weapon can change your life forever. Not that I didn't know this before, but actively discussing it really brought it to the fore and put it in perspective. Carrying a weapon is deadly serious. Our instructor even said that "if we leave his class with more questions about CCW than when we started, he had done his job"..... As odd as that sounds, I get it.

As far as being the hero, etc. I decided a long time ago that if I ever carried a weapon, that is something I would not do. BUT, something that also weighs heavily on my mind is the fact that when presented with a situation, our thoughts and emations change to a degree and can cause you to act in a way you didn't think you would beforehand. That thought scares me a little if I'm being honest.

The above would be one of the main reason's I'd take a cwp course even if my plans weren't to carry just yet; to get a solid feel for the laws and everything involved. Then add in actual self defense training if I was to strap a holster on. It's not even just the laws that rule one outside their home, but knowing when one can consider helping out or when instead they need to stay on the sidelines. The circumstance pops up such as in the recent Vegas shootings when the civilian trying to do what he felt best was shot as well. On the flip side in the 5 yrs i've been down here, there has been at least once when someone carrying took control when a robbery took place of a meeting he was in, took down the offender, and saved the others with no legal issues to follow. There is a lot involved when one goes to carry, I'll do so only when i'm 100% confident in my skills and my training.

OP sounds like you were given solid advice even if the course itself was perhaps more of a beginner type. I'm sure i'll have questions on the legal ramifications as well when I get in a class, so I have all answers i need to make my decisions.
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:35 AM
Status: "Rocktober...well that was fast. :-(" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,300 posts, read 10,454,166 times
Reputation: 13249
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger17 View Post
The above would be one of the main reason's I'd take a cwp course even if my plans weren't to carry just yet; to get a solid feel for the laws and everything involved. Then add in actual self defense training if I was to strap a holster on. It's not even just the laws that rule one outside their home, but knowing when one can consider helping out or when instead they need to stay on the sidelines. The circumstance pops up such as in the recent Vegas shootings when the civilian trying to do what he felt best was shot as well. On the flip side in the 5 yrs i've been down here, there has been at least once when someone carrying took control when a robbery took place of a meeting he was in, took down the offender, and saved the others with no legal issues to follow. There is a lot involved when one goes to carry, I'll do so only when i'm 100% confident in my skills and my training.

OP sounds like you were given solid advice even if the course itself was perhaps more of a beginner type. I'm sure i'll have questions on the legal ramifications as well when I get in a class, so I have all answers i need to make my decisions.
The thing is, I don't think that guy did anything wrong, other than failure to accurately evaluate his enemy. But if someone comes into a store where he is and they come in gunzablazin he is automatically a potential victim and I believe he acted in self defense. His mistake was he assumed only the man was the shooter. He may have been better off retreating to get a better feel for the situation before trying to intervene. But I don't know exactly how it happened, or where he was, etc. It was probably a snap decision in reality so it's not really fair to critique until we've all gone through something similar and performed better.
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:53 AM
 
Location: WI
3,805 posts, read 8,513,254 times
Reputation: 2219
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
The thing is, I don't think that guy did anything wrong, other than failure to accurately evaluate his enemy. But if someone comes into a store where he is and they come in gunzablazin he is automatically a potential victim and I believe he acted in self defense. His mistake was he assumed only the man was the shooter. He may have been better off retreating to get a better feel for the situation before trying to intervene. But I don't know exactly how it happened, or where he was, etc. It was probably a snap decision in reality so it's not really fair to critique until we've all gone through something similar and performed better.
Apologies wasn't meaning to critique what happened as it was a tragic outcome, just his story has stayed in the back of my mind as just one of many situations that could quite easily pop up that anyone who carries should have to prepare for.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:23 AM
Status: "Rocktober...well that was fast. :-(" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,300 posts, read 10,454,166 times
Reputation: 13249
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger17 View Post
Apologies wasn't meaning to critique what happened as it was a tragic outcome, just his story has stayed in the back of my mind as just one of many situations that could quite easily pop up that anyone who carries should have to prepare for.
Of course. I didn't think you were being critical so much as I wanted to be adamant about this victim not making a "shoot-don't shoot" mistake. And you are right, it is a reality people should prepare for. Take a convenience store hold up. How do you know that the perp isn't working with another "customer" who is just there blending in and appears to he a fellow victim but is really covering the perp? This is something I would think about, but the time to think about it now. In a snap decision that mental process needs to complete already. You may not have time to run through it. So we are in agreement: these are things people who carry need to be considering.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,317,512 times
Reputation: 7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
Of course. I didn't think you were being critical so much as I wanted to be adamant about this victim not making a "shoot-don't shoot" mistake. And you are right, it is a reality people should prepare for. Take a convenience store hold up. How do you know that the perp isn't working with another "customer" who is just there blending in and appears to he a fellow victim but is really covering the perp? This is something I would think about, but the time to think about it now. In a snap decision that mental process needs to complete already. You may not have time to run through it. So we are in agreement: these are things people who carry need to be considering.
Not only that but, expanding on you convenience store example..... say you are in the back and you here a scuffle and yelling up front. You qietly make your way to the front to see what all the noise was about. When you get there, you see a man holding another customer at gun point....

What do you do? Do you intervene? Do you call the police and take cover?

If you said you'd intervene, consider this.....

The man holding another customer at gun point turned out to be an undercover or off-duty cop who either just found a criminal he was tracking or stopped a hold up of the store himself.

YOU just pulled a gun on a LEO and obstructed justice....

That is why I would never intervene unless I had all the facts , and out in a random public place, you are seldom going to be 100% certain of all the facts.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:00 PM
 
Location: WI
3,805 posts, read 8,513,254 times
Reputation: 2219
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
Not only that but, expanding on you convenience store example..... say you are in the back and you here a scuffle and yelling up front. You qietly make your way to the front to see what all the noise was about. When you get there, you see a man holding another customer at gun point....

What do you do? Do you intervene? Do you call the police and take cover?

If you said you'd intervene, consider this.....

The man holding another customer at gun point turned out to be an undercover or off-duty cop who either just found a criminal he was tracking or stopped a hold up of the store himself.

YOU just pulled a gun on a LEO and obstructed justice....

That is why I would never intervene unless I had all the facts , and out in a random public place, you are seldom going to be 100% certain of all the facts.
or if at that Vegas WM, the victim was able to take down the shooter as the police came in after knowing 2 of their brothers were just killed. And they see him standing there with his gun.....
Point being (and I'm always speaking as a newbie here so always learning never assuming), these are all the types of circumstances i hope are discussed in CWP classes. Are they common? May not be but it only takes once. And at least for me I expect to be given the knowledge to fully protect myself and those around me should the need arise. If the class doesnt, then it's on for more/better education.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,317,512 times
Reputation: 7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger17 View Post
or if at that Vegas WM, the victim was able to take down the shooter as the police came in after knowing 2 of their brothers were just killed. And they see him standing there with his gun.....
Point being (and I'm always speaking as a newbie here so always learning never assuming), these are all the types of circumstances i hope are discussed in CWP classes. Are they common? May not be but it only takes once. And at least for me I expect to be given the knowledge to fully protect myself and those around me should the need arise. If the class doesnt, then it's on for more/better education.
I don't know the criteria for your state, but as I said in the OP, my experience was more of a class that familiarized a newbie to firearms. If I want more extensive training, including self defense strategies, we were told we'd have to sign up for additional classes not mandated by the state..... which kind of makes no sense to me, but whatever.

I'm seriously considering more training, namely the NRA course "Personal Protection Outside The Home"

The classes in your state might be different though.

Also, if your interested in learning more about the laws in your state concerning CC, the attorney general usually has a book published on their web site, and local sheriffs stations usually have print copies of that same book.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
84 posts, read 167,653 times
Reputation: 37
I'm italian and I will move permanently to south carolina in a couple of months (green card holder).
It's hard for a foreigner to understand, and to take a course for CCW ?
I have several guns in italy, and I shoot every week (practical shooting), so it's not a matter of safety or handling a gun; my concern are laws and rules.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:01 AM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,317,512 times
Reputation: 7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by deutmark View Post
I'm italian and I will move permanently to south carolina in a couple of months (green card holder).
It's hard for a foreigner to understand, and to take a course for CCW ?
I have several guns in italy, and I shoot every week (practical shooting), so it's not a matter of safety or handling a gun; my concern are laws and rules.
Do you plan on becoming a citizen? I think a green card holder CAN purchase a gun, based off my short search that I just did. However, as far as concealed carry goes, I know most states require you to be a resident for so and so amount of time before you can apply for the permit. Also, SC is one of the few states that requires you to have at least 20/40 vision, either actual or corrected, to get the carry permit. Here's some links that should help you out.

South Carolina Concealed Carry Permit Training Requirments

http://www.usacarry.com/south_caroli...formation.html

How to Get a Permit to Carry a Concealed Weapon in South Carolina | eHow
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:21 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
84 posts, read 167,653 times
Reputation: 37
Sure, I plan to become a citizen, but I can do it after 5 years of staying in the USA.
But I'll do (I can be double citizen, italian and USA)
Thanks for the links !
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