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Old 06-30-2014, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Seattle
555 posts, read 631,195 times
Reputation: 495

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FYI, a story in our local news breaking just this afternoon:

Deputy fatally shoots man in SoDo confrontation | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News

I was actually planning to take the Light Rail to the very place where this happened today, but some circumstances changed my schedule. It only goes to show that you never know when or where one of these psychos are going to go off (and more especially so in cities like this that encourages crazies and encourages popular hatred against the police).
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Old 06-30-2014, 09:42 PM
 
4,756 posts, read 8,383,950 times
Reputation: 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Your last paragraph is one of the best pieces of info in this thread. However, please consider that the dirtiest street corner within your city at 2am is probably safer than my commute to work at 6pm. Madison has no crime at all based on the quick data I looked up. I would walk naked through the streets and be safer there than with my SAPI plates and M4 here in Shreveport, except of course for the legal charges, lol!
Thank you. Like I said, what works for me may not work for another person. I am fortunate enough to live in a low-crime city and a good neighborhood. I may have a different perspective if I live in a high crime neighborhood.

I have a "boring" life style and I've worked hard to achieve this life style. Walking naked through the streets maybe too much excitements for my neighbors. LOL
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Old 06-30-2014, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Seattle
555 posts, read 631,195 times
Reputation: 495
HB2HSV:
"A semi-auto has a higher number of 'failure modes' than a revolver."

True; but the bottom line here is that, like any precision tool, it pays to get best and best-engineered product. It's sad but true, but the firearms industry today does occasionally put out some overpriced and underperforming weapons that look tougher than they actually are. I think sticking the tried, tested and true models is always a safer course, though the price of a good German Luger these days might require a second mortgage on the house! lol.
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,315,266 times
Reputation: 7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Luckily, that's never been me, nor do I hope it ever could be! However, I have done some CQB/FOF training where it was 1:1, each person armed with a simunition pistol and 10 rounds. I have seen both people run dry, or one person run dry and then the other person hit them with the last 1-2 rounds after they saw the other become less combat effective, etc.

I remember one of my "shoot outs" with a former Ranger, current SWAT member, who had 100's of hours in a shoothouse. We shot it out at about 10-12' distance, and the Ranger hit me 1 or 2 times low in the abdomen off-center. Real bullets? I would have bet I would have lived...but maybe I wouldn't have...but then and there? Low value hits. I missed him all 8 times (Simgun jammed, lost 2 rounds clearing it...simguns...).

Anyway, multiple people went through the shoot house multiple times. I think the highest "hit rate" was about 40%. It occurred when someone with previous training scars from shooting non-return fire targets in a shoot-house burst into a room and the occupant just dumped a mag into them. The average hit percentage was 20-30%, and 0-10% during the low-light portion occurred multiple times.

I used to think..."5-6 rounds? Hell yeah! This is taken care of!" But even using simunitions (they hurt), once the adrenalin is pumping, etc. that 5-6 rounds feels like 1 or 2. People who think 5-6 rounds is enough need to get some real FoF training and see if they still feel the same. I doubt many do.
Just wondering.... do they set these simguns up to have failures purposely or.... does it just happen?

Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 06-30-2014 at 10:28 PM..
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:20 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,415,357 times
Reputation: 47455
in a word fear
the reason people have permits and carry big scary guns that fire alot is bek they are afraid.
they think that if they have that glock that will be the end of their problems when they use it
no friend that is going to be the beginning.
signed a big NRA supporter
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:20 PM
 
4,756 posts, read 8,383,950 times
Reputation: 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
Off duty, in plain clothes, I carry two handguns: A Sig P226 9mm with a total of 3 magazines. I also carry a Glock 26; again with 3 magazines. In my SUV, I have my M4 and Remington 870. I never go anywhere with a car, unless I'm out of the country, without my rifle/shotgun combo.

When I go hiking/backpacking I carry the same two handguns. I go running with my Glock in my pocket and a spare magazine.

Again, you don't have to be military or police to prepare for the worst. People who do not, are the ones who walk around with a gun and they are the one's killed. They don't have the proper mindset and proper education to face a deadly confrontation and WIN. To WIN you have to take the fight to the enemy; doesn't matter who you are.

And yes, I've carried about 40 lbs on my body for the past 25 years. Thank god I don't have much longer to go. Even when I retire, I'll have 2 guns on me and my rifle/shotgun combo in my SUV. Its faster to take out a second gun, then reload or clear a malfunction.

Oh, one more thing: If I were on the beach, yes, I'd still have my two handguns with me. Tucked in my bathing suit? Probably not, however, not improbable to have one. In my bag which I would have with me? Definitely. I take 2 guns with me to church.
Not all of us can train full time to be combat commandos and expert marksmans. Sure, I would love to be a skilled marksman, an expert in hand-to-hand combat, or better yet; be able to disable my opponent's handgun with my bare hands. But I did not get paid while train for those skills, plus at 50+ of age, I am happy just to have smooth bowl movement.

I may point out that there are people who live to be 90 years old without ever CCW a gun and they did not die of gunshot wounds. Clearly one can WIN in life without carrying 72 rounds of .40S&W at all times.

Given the choice, my preference is to avoid a deadly confrontation. I WIN this way by using what's between my ears. Unlike you, I do not need to CONFRONT a deadly confrontation.

For the most of us, we CCW as an insurance against the extremely unlikely scenario that we may need it to protect ourselves and/or our loved ones. The choice of a CCW weapon is depending on your life style, your training, and choice. Most CCW have less than 10 rounds in the magazine. If I were in California, like you are, I would not be able to carry a 12 round .40S&W in the P226 like you do being a LEO. So we are talking 10 rounds full size semiauto vs. 5~6 round revolver.

It is a trade off between the comfort of carry vs. weight & ammo capacity. Again, it is a personal decision.

Next, one would argue 9mm vs .40SW vs .45ACP vs. .357magnum as effective CCW ammo
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:22 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by HB2HSV View Post
Thank you. Like I said, what works for me may not work for another person. I am fortunate enough to live in a low-crime city and a good neighborhood. I may have a different perspective if I live in a high crime neighborhood.

I have a "boring" life style and I've worked hard to achieve this life style. Walking naked through the streets maybe too much excitements for my neighbors. LOL
I've worked hard, as well, and am moving to a MUCH SAFER and BETTER area (see "Location"), but I just don't trust this world.
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,315,266 times
Reputation: 7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by HB2HSV View Post
It will be a bad day if you allow the bad guy close enough to grab your gun. It will be a stupid move by the gun owner. Practice self-defense distance and gun-retention techniques.
You don't forsee any situation where the crook getting close enough to grab your gun might not be preventable?

What if you're walking along and some thug jumps out from behind a dumpster and just pummels you? You can't always avoid it...

Who knows what some of these crazies will do or why they do it.
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:24 PM
 
4,756 posts, read 8,383,950 times
Reputation: 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawk4440 View Post
HB2HSV:
"A semi-auto has a higher number of 'failure modes' than a revolver."

True; but the bottom line here is that, like any precision tool, it pays to get best and best-engineered product. It's sad but true, but the firearms industry today does occasionally put out some overpriced and underperforming weapons that look tougher than they actually are. I think sticking the tried, tested and true models is always a safer course, though the price of a good German Luger these days might require a second mortgage on the house! lol.
Totally agree. Sir.

I have affinity toward quality manufacturers like the Sig, CZ, and S&W (my preferrence).
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:33 PM
Status: "King of the World" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Itinerant
5,188 posts, read 3,747,109 times
Reputation: 4061
Quote:
Originally Posted by HB2HSV View Post
Anyone who uses his own reloads for a CCW gun is asking for legal trouble. A plaintiff's attorney will have a field day on this.

Use factory ammo for your CCW. Better yet, use what the law enforcement uses.
Actually that's a fallacy that just won't die, I could explain why, but it is not pertinent to the thread, but here's a taste, are you less likely to be convicted of wrongful death or excessive force if you shoot someone with a 22 Short than a 500S&W? Think about it.

However did I even state you should use reloads? No I was mentioning that the only type of ammunition that the OP was concerned with was a dud round. That is not the only ammunition failure (which is why I said ask a reloader) and weak crimps happen on commercial ammunition, the ammunition I experienced a weak crimp on was commercial ammo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HB2HSV View Post
A semiauto has higher number of "failure modes" than a revolver. Assuming both work prior to you take them out for the day, e.g., both cycles flawlessly. So what could go wrong?

Most likely ammo-induced failure mode
1) Weak primer strike - failure to fire
2) Failure to eject (semi-auto only), or
3) Cylinder fail to rotate (revolver only)
4) Failure to feed (semi-auto only)

#1 can happen to both semiauto or revolver, even with factory ammo. If it is revolver then only mode #3) is a concern. But if it is a semiauto, then you'll have mode #2 and #4 (they maybe related cause/effect) to deal with.
Great, what's the solution to 2, and 4?

Tap-Rack-Bang
FTF and FTE should not be an issue if you are using good quality ammunition in that firearm that you have previously tested and works with it and you maintain that weapon adequately. It's all prior to being in that situation work, if you're throwing some new ammunition in your carry weapon and it fails to perform as expected, then you get what you deserve.

What's the solution to 3? Get out your toolkit and try an on the fly fix under fire...? I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HB2HSV View Post
It will be a bad day if you allow the bad guy close enough to grab your gun. It will be a stupid move by the gun owner. Practice self-defense distance and gun-retention techniques.
Not my scenario, was stating more or less the same.
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