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Old 07-11-2014, 01:20 PM
Status: "Rocktober...well that was fast. :-(" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,291 posts, read 10,446,371 times
Reputation: 13244

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
The following is what you don't get:

And it's not an assumption on my part. It is abundantly clear based on what you have posted.

If the market price for a good is $10, and everyone is selling it for $10, tell us all about how the "flippers" will work that market to their advantage.
Except it DOES happen, which I explained in my previous post. Did you not read it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Buying low and selling high is a fundamental aspect of capitalism. You have stated that you object to it in this context, so perhaps I should have asked, "why do you object to capitalism?"
The construct of this question is still a logical fallacy. It assumes by voicing objection to a specific practice I object to capitalism as a whole. This will get you laughed out of any philosophy class in the country. But this thread is about .22lr ammunition, so I digress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Nice try, but it is pretty obvious who's understanding is limited.
You couldn't be more right. Of the two of us, you are the only one who has ruled out from the start certain ideas/concepts offered by the other. This is by definition a "limited understanding" because you are ruling out possibilities. When I say you have a "limited understanding" it is not meant as an insult or suggest you are not intelligent. All I am saying by this is by ruling out possibilities you are limiting what you will consider, hence a limited understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Yes, it was a logical hypothesis. But it's wrong.
Except it wasn't, as verified by a friend, and communicated in my previous post. I guess you overlooked that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
No logical fallacies from me so far, but try again if it makes you feel better.
See comments on "logical fallacies" above. You've given two so far and I've identified both of them so they should be easy for you to find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
I can't really speak to that as I don't live in the same part of the country. All I can say is that it isn't what I have seen at a number of Wal-Mart locations in various parts of the country.

I have a challenge for you. Go down to your local Wal-Mart, and check out the ammo case. They should have plenty of empty spaces where the .22 ammo goes, but there should also be price stickers on the front of the shelves for that ammo. Check out what the prices are, and report back. I'll do the same, and we can compare.
It is entirely possible because of regional variances we will not reach the same conclusion regarding prices at Walmart. Hardly matters, I'm not out to convince you. With that said I will make it a point to go in and see first hand. I had already made a mental note to do so anyway. And what will I prove by doing so? Absolutely nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
"Appropriate" doesn't really have any place in a discussion of equilibrium price. Equilibrium price of gasoline is approx. $3.60/gallon. Is it "appropriate"? It doesn't matter as the market doesn't care. That you don't seem to understand this makes it pretty apparent that you lack sufficient understanding of economics to be able to engage in a reasonable discussion on this topic.
Once again, I will not argue economic semantics with you. If use of the word "appropriate" is indicative to you that I "don't seem to understand this..." then we have found our third logical fallacy. If you wish to get wrapped around the axel over word choice this is a waste of my time. My "lack of understanding" is certainly not the issue here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
And more of your post that indicates a lack of understanding of economics.

Can people sell above equilibrium? Of course. But only at the margins. The only people that are buying ammo at prices above equilibrium are the desperate or the uninformed. This is the case now as was the case before Sandy Hook, and it has always been the case.
But WHO the buyers are is irrelevant. WHY they buy is irrelevant. That they exist is what is relevant. "Lack of understanding" he says...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
I have had fairly extensive training in economics, but apparently, my education is lacking. Can you direct me to some research on "artificial demand" that I could study up on?
Start here: Google

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
I don't decide it, the market does.
Which was exactly the point I was making. The market at retailers still has $23-25 as an equilibrium price for about 500 rounds of .22lr. Yet you are trying to claim retailers are selling below equilibrium. If you don't decide and the market does, you can't make the claim you made. Unless you lack economic knowledge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
(There is your lack of econ. knowledge speaking again)


Whoops. Maybe you should make sure you understand someone's point before making a statement like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
If this is a sound strategy, and Wal-Mart is in fact selling .22 ammo for the current equilibrium price as you claim, please explain why the flippers aren't doing the exact same thing with 12 ga. shotgun ammo or 5.56 ammo from Wal-Mart. Why are those types of ammo nearly always in stock, at market competitive prices?
It DOES happen. There are several forums where you can find identical products available by private sellers for prices higher than retailers. The construct behind this idea has been expressed already and I'm not going to repeat myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
See the challenge above.
As I said, it is already on my "to-do" list. And as I said, no amount of bantering back and forth will likely convince either of us the other is right. Until I've had a chance to get into a store and check, so long. You can reply to this post and I may even take the time to read it. This is my last on this subject for now. It's clear to me you are more concerned about terms, definitions and word choice more so than concepts and ideas. I don't have time for that. I chat here to talk about guns, hunting and ammo, not debate economics. I believe there is an economics forum for that if this is what you wish to do.

Happy hunting, my friend.
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Old 07-11-2014, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,312,628 times
Reputation: 7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger17 View Post
and for those in need, a quick check at a couple sites, Cabelas (remington) and PSA (couple options) does have some available in the .08-.10 area + ship
:

That's a rip off.

If you're paying more than .05 cents a round for just plain old .22, you're paying too much.
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Clovis Strong, NM
3,372 posts, read 4,551,597 times
Reputation: 1953
Bought a 500round brick at a shop in Ontario, CA for about $90.
I was in a bit of a pinch though and it also felt more like an impulse buy more than anything.
Where I'm at right now, it's all hit and miss when it comes to various .22 supply.
I've got this sweet, Henry lever-action that really needs some action.

We've got four dedicated gun shops here and a few other chain stores that happen to sell guns in addition to everything else.
Most of the time I usually see a large amount of .22 short and shot-shell available, in addition to that high-priced, fancy hollow-point .22.
But if I see a box of the plain, old good stuff, I attempt to snatch a box or two just to have something to play around with.

At the same time though, I feel the one thing that keeps me from shooting more often is the lack of local, legal places to shoot.
We've got one outdoor range with odd-ball hours, and there's this old bank near the base which has some recently placed sign advertising an "indoor shooting range opening soon".

Apart from that, it's find a "remote" area within not too far bicycling or driving distance, and cross your fingers someone doesn't complain ALL THE WAY OUT THERE.
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:23 PM
 
5,221 posts, read 2,377,031 times
Reputation: 5111
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
Except it wasn't, as verified by a friend, and communicated in my previous post. I guess you overlooked that.


It is entirely possible because of regional variances we will not reach the same conclusion regarding prices at Walmart. Hardly matters, I'm not out to convince you. With that said I will make it a point to go in and see first hand. I had already made a mental note to do so anyway. And what will I prove by doing so? Absolutely nothing.


Which was exactly the point I was making. The market at retailers still has $23-25 as an equilibrium price for about 500 rounds of .22lr. Yet you are trying to claim retailers are selling below equilibrium. If you don't decide and the market does, you can't make the claim you made. Unless you lack economic knowledge.


As I said, it is already on my "to-do" list.
Federal 550 pack is $23.97 today at Wal-Mart in Billings, MT. That is the exact same price charged at Wal-Mart's in Monroe and Loganville, GA two weeks ago.

Now, as you might expect, there is no ammo currently available at that price. The only way you will get that price is if you are lucky enough to be there, ready to buy, at the moment the shelves are re-stocked (or it is made available online).

However, there is plenty of ammo available, nationwide, at a price of 8-10 cents per round. So, which is most likely the current equilibrium price? $24, where none is available, or $40-50, where plenty is available, both online and in brick and mortar stores?

If you still maintain that $23-25 is the equilibrium price for .22 ammo, show me where I can buy it at that price. Good luck.

The following link may help you to gain a better understanding of current market prices for .22 ammo:

gun-deals.com - User-Submitted Gun & Ammunition Deals
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:27 PM
 
Location: WI
3,805 posts, read 8,508,451 times
Reputation: 2219
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
:

That's a rip off.

If you're paying more than .05 cents a round for just plain old .22, you're paying too much.
agreed and more then i'd pay esp once ship is added. But for those in out of the way areas who perhaps have to pay higher prices thru second hand resellers (or even their local stores), then ammo like that may be a viable alternative. I've paid .08 for CCI std vel and mini mags, but that was final cost in a store, and usually just a box or two to get me thru a range visit...... but I prefer to find some Fed 525ct boxes for $25 (which do exist).
Heck, i've seen .22 higher online then what i've paid for 9mm on occasion which really blows my mind.
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Old 07-11-2014, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Seal Beach, California
600 posts, read 596,168 times
Reputation: 433
Federal boxes with 550 at $20 were pretty low. I'd pay only $35 max for a box and that's just to have fun shooting.

The gun shows that have been charging $50+ is unbelieveable. I've seen some go for $100/brick. That just leaves a bad taste in people's mouth.

If I go to Walmart I'll take a peek which so far has yielding nothing, but I'm not going to put my life on hold trying to find ammo and paying gouging prices.
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Old 07-12-2014, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,312,628 times
Reputation: 7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentstrider View Post
Bought a 500round brick at a shop in Ontario, CA for about $90.
I was in a bit of a pinch though and it also felt more like an impulse buy more than anything.
Where I'm at right now, it's all hit and miss when it comes to various .22 supply.
I've got this sweet, Henry lever-action that really needs some action.

We've got four dedicated gun shops here and a few other chain stores that happen to sell guns in addition to everything else.
Most of the time I usually see a large amount of .22 short and shot-shell available, in addition to that high-priced, fancy hollow-point .22.
But if I see a box of the plain, old good stuff, I attempt to snatch a box or two just to have something to play around with.

At the same time though, I feel the one thing that keeps me from shooting more often is the lack of local, legal places to shoot.
We've got one outdoor range with odd-ball hours, and there's this old bank near the base which has some recently placed sign advertising an "indoor shooting range opening soon".

Apart from that, it's find a "remote" area within not too far bicycling or driving distance, and cross your fingers someone doesn't complain ALL THE WAY OUT THERE.
No offense to you personally, but as long as people keep paying that for a brick of .22, the longer the inflated prices will last, and why wouldn't they? I mean, If I can charge a $100 for something, and there are people out there who will pay it, why would I drop my prices down to $25?

Why anyone would pay nearly 4x what something cost less than 2 years ago is beyond me.
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Old 07-13-2014, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,194 posts, read 17,686,126 times
Reputation: 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentstrider View Post
Bought a 500round brick at a shop in Ontario, CA for about $90.
What kind of ammo was it? That's getting close centerfire pricing, and is VERY expensive unless it happens to be match ammo or some kind of specialty stuff. Plinking ammo can be found online for not much more than half that price, including shipping.

Out of curiosity, what are the rules for buying ammo out there? I bought ammo at a gun store in Los Angeles (city) before I moved to LV, and was shocked that I had to give my thumb print to buy ammo. At the time, it was an L.A. City law. Is there any similar stupidity that's made its way though the state legislature?
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Old 07-13-2014, 12:06 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687
90 bucks for a brick? No way not any day.
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Old 07-13-2014, 12:41 PM
 
25,631 posts, read 29,109,412 times
Reputation: 23049
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
90 bucks for a brick? No way not any day.

Seriously. I can find 22lr on the internet all day long for about half that. Not including shipping though.
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