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Old 10-01-2014, 03:53 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,748 posts, read 2,614,148 times
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I have seen time and time again people using ACOG's with BDC's and saying that they work fine out to 700-800 yards. TO me, that indicates that yes, the charts posted have some merit...
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L-N-L View Post
300 Yard Zero Trajectory Graph




It would never make NATO specs if it fell 64 in 400. Also, please remove Winchester white box and Wolf OR WHATEVER junk the 50' bad boys are using. You're using Mil-spec SS109 in 5.56x45mm. .223 Remington is not a substitution. With a 36/300 zero and a 20" 1/7 ^ that is what you get.
This is more of what I remember for drop off of that round.
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:22 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
This is more of what I remember for drop off of that round.
The massive irony is that it's exactly what we have been telling you for the last few pages of this thread.
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
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Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
The massive irony is that it's exactly what we have been telling you for the last few pages of this thread.
No, everybody has either provided projected data, or "I said so so you must believe me data". I asked for actual data, not projected. Everybody seems to think its the same thing, and it is not. Manufacturer expectations is not what actually happens. The charts posted before were actual bullet tragectorys and I was hoping the person that posted before, would post again.
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:45 PM
 
7,282 posts, read 8,388,233 times
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In what world other than the rare exception, does a law enforcement officer encounter a situation that requires the need to shoot 300-400 yards or more?

On average, how often would the availability of an AR-15 make any difference over the sidearm or shotgun? Rarely.

One could argue that it is the exception that needs to be accounted for.

Since when and if so why does that standard not apply to every citizen in this country?
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:56 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L-N-L View Post
Don't know, but I would sure be afraid of that former leatherneck. His calculations are less than 9" off. Take a tape measure and measure your head, or, measure from your belly button to your throat. That's plenty close enough to do the job, even if it's was just a swag. I'd hate to see what he was capable of with optics......
Elkhunter never provided anything. He just likes your graph because he thinks it's different than what I and that Marine were telling him to begin with because he is a visual person and couldn't "see" that the numbers we gave him coincide with that graph you whipped up.
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Old 10-02-2014, 12:02 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
In what world other than the rare exception, does a law enforcement officer encounter a situation that requires the need to shoot 300-400 yards or more? This...This again. Oh, yes, and...THIS. *sigh* But so many people fancy themselves as needing to be "snipers" or "countersnipers" or something. This is why I sold all of my "reach out and touch someone" guns. I have ZERO practical use for them.

On average, how often would the availability of an AR-15 make any difference over the sidearm or shotgun? Rarely. Lots. My friends use them doing meth-lab busts, and other high-risk activities. As far as "routine police use" such as in a rack in the cruiser, they would be used for "active shooter" scenarios. This is why my local college officers carry them. They allow precise engagement outside of normal handgun range, and afford an officer that advantage. They also negate soft body armor. An M4 can do anything a shotgun can do, except better (when it comes to people, excepting dealing with cars, where a Brenneke slug works better). It also launches 1 bullet vs. 8 or 9 in the case of buckshot (collateral/liability). Holds 30 rounds instead of 9 (the most I've seen in a shotgun, typically, setup for LE use), and has less recoil, more precision, and allows faster follow-up. Again, soft body armor is negated.

One could argue that it is the exception that needs to be accounted for. I believe that it is. One could also argue that "the average" law officer never draws his side-arm, so why carry it? I feel that is a bad line of logic. You never know which officer is going to be cruising by when the call comes in for the next nutjob in a public area, and I would MUCH rather that officer whip around and pull up with an M4 than his Glock 22.

Since when and if so why does that standard not apply to every citizen in this country?

I think the standard does. Some municipalities disagree. I have my M4. My father has his M4. Every friend I have has their M4. Those who don't, I am building M4's for, or helping them otherwise acquire one. Practicing what I preach. I've helped put an M4 in everyone's hand that I consider a close friend, so far.

Why do I think it applies? Because I am always where I am, 100% of the time. An officer of the law, is not always where I am. I do not expect to ask someone to solve a life and death problem for me, that involves me. ESPECIALLY if I would have to wait for them to arrive. This is not to say that I want to do their jobs for them, or that I would not call the police, but it's MY life on the line, MY responsibility. I am going to be better trained, and better equipped than the police that would respond, 9 times out of 10, and that's a mark of pride, responsibility, and precaution, on my part. If everyone were like that, or had a family member in the house of that mindset, we would have a lot less tragedies gracing the news.
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,428,561 times
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Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Elkhunter never provided anything. He just likes your graph because he thinks it's different than what I and that Marine were telling him to begin with because he is a visual person and couldn't "see" that the numbers we gave him coincide with that graph you whipped up.
If you care to re-read, I said this is closer to what I remember.

Still, nobody, including you, have come up with any answers. That's OK, if you don't know, it's OK to say so.
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,428,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
In what world other than the rare exception, does a law enforcement officer encounter a situation that requires the need to shoot 300-400 yards or more?

On average, how often would the availability of an AR-15 make any difference over the sidearm or shotgun? Rarely.

One could argue that it is the exception that needs to be accounted for.

Since when and if so why does that standard not apply to every citizen in this country?
The gun is touted to be a good gun from 100-300 yards. That's it.

The gun is great at those ranges with a 1 in 8 twist with a 55 grain bullet, and to have a good fragmentation. If you want to shoot further, a 77 grain slug is good, but you need a 1 in 7 twist. That is good for competition. Don't confuse the two because you are not switching barrels in mid fight. The 77 wind fragment the same, so don't try and use it for the same thing.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:31 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,748 posts, read 2,614,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
If you care to re-read, I said this is closer to what I remember.

Still, nobody, including you, have come up with any answers. That's OK, if you don't know, it's OK to say so.
I really don't, at this point. What exactly is your question?
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