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Old 08-02-2015, 07:54 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,944 posts, read 2,812,938 times
Reputation: 2945

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zonest View Post
softpoints wont. You're talking about 62 gr, steel-capped M855, i bet. which is a stupid load for civilians or cops to be using. 55 gr M193 ball aint much better about staying inside of a torso.

The problem is that many people, like the poster above you, look at "homogenous target performance".

Yes, M855 WILL punch a hole through 8" of pine (I have tested bonded soft-points to do less, as you note).

However, that M855 round will take multiple rounds to work on something as simple as a criminal in a vehicle, because after the first obstacle it encounters, it typically comes apart. In a homogenous target, this effect is seldom noted. I have fragged M855 shooting through the back glass of a BMW 3-series. The BACK windscreen. Bullet came in two at the cannelure is my guess. Shots that went through the back deck of the trunk entered the driver's compartment as pure shrapnel. They would have hurt, and if struck an artery done the job, but MANY PD's are discovering that M193 and M855 flat-out SUCK on automobile encased badguys. They simply won't penetrate reliably at all.

Then you have the SECOND problem...many departments have idiotic policies on duty ammo. Some mandate FMJ. Some mandate ballistic tips (obviously even WORSE for vehicles).

The FBI is using 64gr Bonded Noslers, and 62gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, both loaded to 5.56 velocity. Of the two, the Nosler in Ranger RA556B format is my favorite. I get around 2 MOA 10-shot groups from this load using just a red-dot and magnifier at 100 yards.

Anyway, I always encourage people to go SHOOT THINGS! and stop believing what you read on the internet until you vette the source...even still, that's tough, because many BTDT guys are just paid spokes-people. Larry Vickers for instance. That guy has pimped some great gear, and some junk. It's about the dollars, IMO, there.
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Old 08-02-2015, 09:21 AM
 
286 posts, read 207,463 times
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If you have to deal with people in vehicles, (by shooting thru the vehicles) then obviously what you want is the old steel cored .30 AK rd. But, in a lot of cases, you're still not going to hit them, cause they have lots of places that they can BE (while out of your sight). and engine blocks DO stop bullets. So you can easily waste several mags of ammo killing ONE guy, and all the noise calls in people whom you dont even notice, who then shoot you in the back, if it's shtf.

I believe in outflanking their cover, or hitting them when they expose themselves, or just leaving the area. If you aint out in the open, in daylight, your risks of being in gunfights will be 10x less, if shtf. At night, a GOOD suppressor removes ALL muzzleflash from an AR 223. I haven't tried it on a piston AR. The faster venting of the impingement sytem might reduce the load on the can, I don't know for sure.

Cops, being vehicular-based, would be better served with .30 AKs, even with SKS's, than with AR's if they have luminous sights. The major advantages of the 223 and AR,( weight and bulk of the guns and the ammo) mean much less if you're not afoot (without re-supply)
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Old 08-02-2015, 04:06 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,944 posts, read 2,812,938 times
Reputation: 2945
Quote:
Originally Posted by zonest View Post
If you have to deal with people in vehicles, (by shooting thru the vehicles) then obviously what you want is the old steel cored .30 AK rd. But, in a lot of cases, you're still not going to hit them, cause they have lots of places that they can BE (while out of your sight). and engine blocks DO stop bullets. So you can easily waste several mags of ammo killing ONE guy, and all the noise calls in people whom you dont even notice, who then shoot you in the back, if it's shtf.

I believe in outflanking their cover, or hitting them when they expose themselves, or just leaving the area. If you aint out in the open, in daylight, your risks of being in gunfights will be 10x less, if shtf. At night, a GOOD suppressor removes ALL muzzleflash from an AR 223. I haven't tried it on a piston AR. The faster venting of the impingement sytem might reduce the load on the can, I don't know for sure.

Cops, being vehicular-based, would be better served with .30 AKs, even with SKS's, than with AR's if they have luminous sights. The major advantages of the 223 and AR,( weight and bulk of the guns and the ammo) mean much less if you're not afoot (without re-supply)
Maybe on a 24" barrel, but not on an M4 carbine or shorter. I'd like to see that! Noone has achieved it that I am aware. My flash suppressors work much better than my suppressors, for that, and I am currently using latest gen Surefire products. AAC doesn't suppress flash as well, and KAC is on part with, with their new line.

As to cars, P for Plenty.
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Old 08-02-2015, 04:15 PM
 
286 posts, read 207,463 times
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it's easier on the short barrels, actually. a can on the end of a 24" barrel would render the gun "bipod-use only", basically. Like they do on all the 308's.

once again, if you use a sleeve tube around the main tube, vent the inside tube into the sleeve area (welded gas tight at both ends) and KNOW what to put in the sleeve area, the can will eliminate all flash from an M4 type 223. 7.5" longer than the barrel, 1 3/4" OD. The hottest, highest pressure gases never impinge upon the baffles at all, cause they are diverted by the deflectors (in the expansion chamber) out into the sleeve area. Given the right "stuffing" in that area, they are absorbed there. internal tube of 1 1/4" OD tubing. both tubes .050" wall-thickness. If there's still incandescent gases at the front of the can, it's not very quiet.
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Old 08-02-2015, 04:18 PM
 
286 posts, read 207,463 times
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Reed Knight used a can of the same size to handle full auto fire from an M16. It's not that big a deal. guys just try to get by with too little volume inside their cans.
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Old 08-02-2015, 06:51 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,944 posts, read 2,812,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zonest View Post
it's easier on the short barrels, actually. a can on the end of a 24" barrel would render the gun "bipod-use only", basically. Like they do on all the 308's.

once again, if you use a sleeve tube around the main tube, vent the inside tube into the sleeve area (welded gas tight at both ends) and KNOW what to put in the sleeve area, the can will eliminate all flash from an M4 type 223. 7.5" longer than the barrel, 1 3/4" OD. The hottest, highest pressure gases never impinge upon the baffles at all, cause they are diverted by the deflectors (in the expansion chamber) out into the sleeve area. Given the right "stuffing" in that area, they are absorbed there. internal tube of 1 1/4" OD tubing. both tubes .050" wall-thickness. If there's still incandescent gases at the front of the can, it's not very quiet.
Stuffing would burn out in less than a day of me using it. However. ..I'm all eyes. Show me the camera or video footage. Surefire was happy to provide me with high speed footage. You seem to be trying to compete. Let's see it brother!
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Old 08-02-2015, 07:25 PM
 
286 posts, read 207,463 times
Reputation: 242
don't you know who and what I am? Or are you just trying to get me sent back to prison If so, eff you. Once again, nobody needs to be blasting lots of ammo thru a silencer. If you insist upon it, go take one at a flying donut. The rest of us can do without the waste of 1000's of $ per year.

I think you want free info that I paid for with 10 years of my life, so jam it.
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Old 08-02-2015, 08:41 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,944 posts, read 2,812,938 times
Reputation: 2945
Quote:
Originally Posted by zonest View Post
don't you know who and what I am? Or are you just trying to get me sent back to prison If so, eff you. Once again, nobody needs to be blasting lots of ammo thru a silencer. If you insist upon it, go take one at a flying donut. The rest of us can do without the waste of 1000's of $ per year.

I think you want free info that I paid for with 10 years of my life, so jam it.
I'm comfy buying legal NFA items not made in a garage, thanks.
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Old 08-03-2015, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,791 posts, read 3,885,005 times
Reputation: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by zonest View Post
don't you know who and what I am? Or are you just trying to get me sent back to prison If so, eff you. Once again, nobody needs to be blasting lots of ammo thru a silencer. If you insist upon it, go take one at a flying donut. The rest of us can do without the waste of 1000's of $ per year.

I think you want free info that I paid for with 10 years of my life, so jam it.
No, it's that unless you provide some sort of proof most of us assume you are just another internet "keyboard kommando". That, and if you really are a felon who legally cannot own firearms, you are phenomenally unsmart to brag about it on the internet.

In case you are interested, I can draw a six-shooter and empty it before you can get your earplugs in.
I'm also a retired MMA fighter. I went undefeated, but I can't disclose my fighting name for legal reasons.

I was going to list lots of other brags, but I got bored after two. Both are lies, in case you were curious.


What about this... instead of a video of your suppressor in action, why not put up a set of plans for this homemade double-tube design of yours? Or even just a sketch. I might try it out myself.
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