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Old 07-17-2014, 06:45 AM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,132,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
5.56 has less over penetration issues than 9mm
yay for knowledge! So few people know about this. I have a 556 for home defense and wouldn't even think of using a pistol unless I absolutely had to.
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Old 07-17-2014, 07:47 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,943 posts, read 2,811,071 times
Reputation: 2932
Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
yay for knowledge! So few people know about this. I have a 556 for home defense and wouldn't even think of using a pistol unless I absolutely had to.
Comes from shooting things with them, lol.

Of course, some 5.56 WILL penetrate, such as the 5.56 Browntip/SOCOM load I prefer. However, even that won't go through/through on a cinderblock shot sideways (2 "walls" of block, not end-to-end) with any energy left. Brick REALLY takes the punch out of 5.56. Interior walls are nothing to that load, though.
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Old 07-19-2014, 02:40 PM
 
4,101 posts, read 6,127,308 times
Reputation: 5644
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Well, yes, and no. Yes, they are not obligated to protect the public, but also consider that someone who is shooting it out with a cop probably wouldn't hesitate to shot you and drive off in your car after the shootout, should they win potentially.

Personally, if I was a police officer, I would want the baddest gear I could get. The average life expectancy of a police officer is 20 years shorter than yours or mine. I'd like to be an exception to that fact, were I in LE, and better gear is part of the equation.
There is no yes and no about it! A police officer is armed to protect himself, not to protect the general public. The LEO's job is to collect evidence of a crime for trial and prevent crime when he can, he is never told his job is to protect the general public. I did work as a LEO for the state of Oregon. So I have an idea how the upper brass in Salem's Ivory Tower thinks. In our department you were furnished a handgun, and you had to use what was furnished, you had no say in what you could use. Oregon went from using Winchester model 94 carbines to pump shotguns with a 20 inch barrel in the seventies. At that time i bought a surplus Win Mod 94 for $42, a rifle I still have today. Back then we were issued a S&W Highway Patrolmen in 357 Mag, or a bit later (1971) a Colt Trooper 357 Mag. Investigators were allowed to carry a small J Frame S&W, Game Officers were allowed to carry Carbines. If AR's would have been available we wouldn't have been allowed to carry one. I wanted our department to look into semi auto handguns, but my request fell on deaf ears, mainly because of the cost. The Colt Troopers Oregon bought back then were rejected by the Border Patrol, Oregon bought them at a discounted price and stopped buying S&W, even though it was the preferred firearm. Budget was everything, it still is.
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Old 07-19-2014, 03:37 PM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,132,693 times
Reputation: 3148
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Comes from shooting things with them, lol.

Of course, some 5.56 WILL penetrate, such as the 5.56 Browntip/SOCOM load I prefer. However, even that won't go through/through on a cinderblock shot sideways (2 "walls" of block, not end-to-end) with any energy left. Brick REALLY takes the punch out of 5.56. Interior walls are nothing to that load, though.
Yeah interior walls aren't much to any round though
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:30 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,943 posts, read 2,811,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
Yeah interior walls aren't much to any round though
No, but they will frag vmax and tap fpd .223 rounds.
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:36 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,943 posts, read 2,811,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite Ryder View Post
There is no yes and no about it! A police officer is armed to protect himself, not to protect the general public. The LEO's job is to collect evidence of a crime for trial and prevent crime when he can, he is never told his job is to protect the general public. I did work as a LEO for the state of Oregon. So I have an idea how the upper brass in Salem's Ivory Tower thinks. In our department you were furnished a handgun, and you had to use what was furnished, you had no say in what you could use. Oregon went from using Winchester model 94 carbines to pump shotguns with a 20 inch barrel in the seventies. At that time i bought a surplus Win Mod 94 for $42, a rifle I still have today. Back then we were issued a S&W Highway Patrolmen in 357 Mag, or a bit later (1971) a Colt Trooper 357 Mag. Investigators were allowed to carry a small J Frame S&W, Game Officers were allowed to carry Carbines. If AR's would have been available we wouldn't have been allowed to carry one. I wanted our department to look into semi auto handguns, but my request fell on deaf ears, mainly because of the cost. The Colt Troopers Oregon bought back then were rejected by the Border Patrol, Oregon bought them at a discounted price and stopped buying S&W, even though it was the preferred firearm. Budget was everything, it still is.
That's Oregon. Totally communist compared to where I live where even university campus cops get m4s, body armor, etc.
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Old 07-20-2014, 03:55 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,634 posts, read 3,001,281 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
The vast majority of LE does have a long arm or two in the car. If you are asking why they don't walk around and respond to calls with them dangling from a three point sling, it is because Americans don't want that from their police.
This is a good point. I've noticed outrage and paranoia over the years whenever images of law enforcement holding rifles float around. People don't support the police as much as they used to. People don't like seeing law enforcement with assault rifles, but they are needed today with all of the craziness going on. It seems like some criminals (school shooters especially) try to "one up" the others before them by doing more and more damage. At a minimum, the police need whatever firepower citizens have. Look at the Hollywood bank robbery shootout years ago on YouTube where the criminals had armor and rifles... Law enforcement was unprepared for that event. Law enforcement has had to adapt and change with the times, and law-abiding citizens should be happy and support them when they do.
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Old 07-20-2014, 03:57 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,634 posts, read 3,001,281 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite Ryder View Post
There is no yes and no about it! A police officer is armed to protect himself, not to protect the general public. The LEO's job is to collect evidence of a crime for trial and prevent crime when he can, he is never told his job is to protect the general public. I did work as a LEO for the state of Oregon. So I have an idea how the upper brass in Salem's Ivory Tower thinks. In our department you were furnished a handgun, and you had to use what was furnished, you had no say in what you could use. Oregon went from using Winchester model 94 carbines to pump shotguns with a 20 inch barrel in the seventies. At that time i bought a surplus Win Mod 94 for $42, a rifle I still have today. Back then we were issued a S&W Highway Patrolmen in 357 Mag, or a bit later (1971) a Colt Trooper 357 Mag. Investigators were allowed to carry a small J Frame S&W, Game Officers were allowed to carry Carbines. If AR's would have been available we wouldn't have been allowed to carry one. I wanted our department to look into semi auto handguns, but my request fell on deaf ears, mainly because of the cost. The Colt Troopers Oregon bought back then were rejected by the Border Patrol, Oregon bought them at a discounted price and stopped buying S&W, even though it was the preferred firearm. Budget was everything, it still is.
The policy on deadly force at our local department says deadly force is authorized to protect yourself (the officer) or a third party (others). If you were an LEO and felt like it wasn't your job to protect others as much as yourself, you were selfish. If I see an armed, violent felon running towards a day care, I'm no longer in danger but will take him out if it means protecting the kids from being little hostages.

As for officers being allowed to carry certain weapons, that varies by department. I carry my handgun, and I am trained to carry a shotgun, rifle, or less lethal "bean bag" gun. I don't always carry all of those, but I can if I want to. It's also up to me whether I get them out based on what I think the call requires.

Last edited by Geneyus; 07-20-2014 at 04:06 PM..
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Old 07-20-2014, 05:14 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,943 posts, read 2,811,071 times
Reputation: 2932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geneyus View Post
The policy on deadly force at our local department says deadly force is authorized to protect yourself (the officer) or a third party (others). If you were an LEO and felt like it wasn't your job to protect others as much as yourself, you were selfish. If I see an armed, violent felon running towards a day care, I'm no longer in danger but will take him out if it means protecting the kids from being little hostages.

As for officers being allowed to carry certain weapons, that varies by department. I carry my handgun, and I am trained to carry a shotgun, rifle, or less lethal "bean bag" gun. I don't always carry all of those, but I can if I want to. It's also up to me whether I get them out based on what I think the call requires.
Officers are not legally forced to protect the citizenry. That is a personal decision.
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Old 08-10-2014, 08:04 PM
 
4,101 posts, read 6,127,308 times
Reputation: 5644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geneyus View Post
The policy on deadly force at our local department says deadly force is authorized to protect yourself (the officer) or a third party (others). If you were an LEO and felt like it wasn't your job to protect others as much as yourself, you were selfish. If I see an armed, violent felon running towards a day care, I'm no longer in danger but will take him out if it means protecting the kids from being little hostages.

As for officers being allowed to carry certain weapons, that varies by department. I carry my handgun, and I am trained to carry a shotgun, rifle, or less lethal "bean bag" gun. I don't always carry all of those, but I can if I want to. It's also up to me whether I get them out based on what I think the call requires.
We operated under these same laws. Heading toward a day care center is far from already being at a daycare center. You shoot someone who is running and it is going to be hard to prove your case in court when an attorney has all the time in the world to pick the case apart. There are too many if's in this situation, how do I know for sure that guy running is a violent felon and not some 17 year old kid? I didn't want to go to the pen for shooting a thug. We had instruction on handguns, rifles, and shotguns, but we couldn't carry anything the state didn't issue unless you had special permission. Cops are way too trigger happy in this day and age, just because they can be. In my opinion if you shoot at someone that you think is a violent felon, if he hasn't shot at you, you are a very foolish person.
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