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Old 09-14-2014, 02:37 PM
 
17,916 posts, read 9,849,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
I notice muggings are frequently from the rear or other approach away from frontal view and just outside of peripheral vision. Which is why constant observation of surroundings is needed.
Or they use multiple assailants from multiple directions and/or distraction techniques.
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Old 09-14-2014, 02:40 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,427,088 times
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the only way here of you using your weapon-- under any circumstances--- no matter out outrageous- without criminal charges or being sued in a court of law, is if you got holes in your body- when it is over. the cops will however confiscate your weapon and unless you raise a huge fuss, not give it back. if you protest a lot, you might get it back in 5 years, maybe.
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Old 09-14-2014, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,317,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowa4430 View Post
At what point, in a confrontation, is it considered OK to simply lift your shirt and show that you are armed. Note that the intention is simply to defuse a situation. Is that considered brandishing or illegal?

Obviously, I would only condone this in a situation that wasn't escalated by the person carrying in the first place.
I would have to say never, from a personal standpoint. That of course is just my personal opinion though, not a legal one. Laws vary from state to state.

Secondly, doing this may very well escalate the situation instead of defusing it. You have that gun for your own personal protection, that's it. Not to win an argument or anything else. The only legally acceptable reason it should ever make an appearence is if you legitimately fear for your life.

Third, say you brush your jacket back to show "you're packing heat" and the guy you're arguing with also has a gun, unknown to you, and pulls it and shoots you? He could say "I was just defending myself, he was going for his gun" and he'd have a compelling and believable claim. You have to think about EVERYTHING when you make the decision to carry a gun. If you wait until you're faced with a threat to make your game plan, you're either going to end up dead, in prison, or in financial ruin for the rest of your life.

I'm not allowed to link to it here per the forum rules, but on the "visitor messages" portion of my profile page, there is another link to a website that discusses self defense outside the home pretty extensively with a lot of good advice. Check it out if you're so inclined. Should be the first message on my profile.

Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 09-14-2014 at 03:15 PM..
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Old 09-14-2014, 03:00 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,427,088 times
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guns only take care of the initial problem. the next problem-- the litigation--- is much harder and can only happen if you resolved the first problem with a gun. if you are a homeowner and have a job and a gun you are about to lose all 3 when you use that gun.
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Old 09-14-2014, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Squirrel Hill PA
1,865 posts, read 1,742,469 times
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Only if you are 100% willing to shoot the person without hesitation. If you are not willing and okay with killing someone when the situation arises, and willing to accept all of the consequences that this entails, you should not even own a gun for self defense.
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Old 09-14-2014, 03:14 PM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,037,088 times
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In the group attack, I would've had my gun pulled as soon as I was aware that the group were stalking us down that alley. At the very least my hand would be on the grip of my pistol, ready to be drawn and I would be facing them, pacing backwards in order to keep some distance between us. Bullet is in the chamber already so no worries there obviously. Things happen very fast. Situational awareness is important. If they got the drop on us like what happened in this case, I would employ my krav training (read: I would start blocking and striking) to get myself some space so that I could draw and begin firing. They chose their fate when they attacked us for no reason, I cease to care about their well being at that point.

In the parking lot incident, if I was that white dude I would've been running full speed away from the area long before they got close enough to me to grab me like that. If I somehow got trapped or caught out, no question gun would be drawn and leveled at their faces, along with me yelling extremely loud. If a few of them chased me for any length of time when I was running full speed I would pull and turn around. Depending on how it was unfolding I might just start shooting, you don't mess around with a group of assailants that big, disparity of force is huge.
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Old 09-14-2014, 05:50 PM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,037,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
guns only take care of the initial problem. the next problem-- the litigation--- is much harder and can only happen if you resolved the first problem with a gun. if you are a homeowner and have a job and a gun you are about to lose all 3 when you use that gun.
Not in Florida.
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Old 09-14-2014, 06:18 PM
 
Location: the Permian Basin
4,093 posts, read 2,823,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowa4430 View Post
At what point, in a confrontation, is it considered OK to simply lift your shirt and show that you are armed. Note that the intention is simply to defuse a situation. Is that considered brandishing or illegal?
That could be a violation of concealed carry laws.

But more importantly:
You just wasted value seconds that you should've been using for target acquisition (your attackers could've attacked you during that time - google "21 foot rule").

Why carry a gun if you're unwilling to use it?
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Old 09-15-2014, 04:45 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,543,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowa4430 View Post
I would like to hear input from the sane ones. The lawful gun owners on here. (not the uninformed, anti-gun, hand wringing leftist loons)

In the situation on the Kroger video and also the one where the Missouri couple are attacked by a group of thugs, I have a couple of questions:

1. at what point is it reasonable or justified for a bystander to unholster and address them?

2. At what point is it reasonable or justified for the victim to unholster and address the attackers?

Brutal Kroger parking lot attack caught on camera, Dir. Armstron - WFSB 3 Connecticut

Group of men captured on camera viciously assaulting couple in Missouri captured as police ask for public's help apprehending them | Mail Online


if you are in fear for your life, or when protecting another life, then you are justified. if you live in a castle doctrine state, then anytime someone crosses the threshold of your home, then deadly force is authorized.
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Old 09-15-2014, 11:39 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,748 posts, read 2,614,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowa4430 View Post
I would like to hear input from the sane ones. The lawful gun owners on here. (not the uninformed, anti-gun, hand wringing leftist loons)

In the situation on the Kroger video and also the one where the Missouri couple are attacked by a group of thugs, I have a couple of questions:

1. at what point is it reasonable or justified for a bystander to unholster and address them?
-If I know the victims and understand the situation and feel their lives are in danger/if a child is in danger/if someone obviously defenseless is in danger (say, a wheelchair bound person, etc.). Basically...what can I not live with if I don't stop it? because that is the ONLY justification for doing someone else's job for them at your expense. You will pay dearly because they would not rise to the occasion. Make sure that any price-tag is worth it to you.

2. At what point is it reasonable or justified for the victim to unholster and address the attackers?
-at whatever point that I had reasonable belief that I might be killed or severely maimed. This will vary greatly on circumstance and individual, and cannot be "MMQB'ed" on some YouTube clip. Either be there, or not, you can't "feel" and sense those things from a YouTube video, IMO.

Brutal Kroger parking lot attack caught on camera, Dir. Armstron - WFSB 3 Connecticut

Group of men captured on camera viciously assaulting couple in Missouri captured as police ask for public's help apprehending them | Mail Online

If someone chooses to be a victim, very rarely will I feel the need to put my life and future liberty on the line to protect them. Elderly, children, etc. are exceptions I suppose, but unless you are a law enforcement officer or they are family or like family, I'd stay the hell out of it. You don't want none.
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