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Old 09-24-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,475,159 times
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It was back several years and I was down in Texas doing a project for the Government. Other than my kids, I've never mentioned it, of course I told them.

The old adage of dead men don't testify, rings true. His family tried to bring up charges but nothing ever happened.

When it happened, of course I called 911 and it seemed like hours for the police to arrive. Yes, they asked me to come down town, they didn't arrest me and they didn't transport me. I got to drive myself down town. There had been a rash of home invasions over the past 60 days in my area. I have a CCW and was just setting watching TV and out of the corner of my eye I saw the knob start turning on my door. I drew my S&W .40 and waited. The door opened about a foot and the first thing through the door was a revolver.

People say that you anticipate, you think, you????? I have trained all my life to react, and I did. I have always trained myself to double tap, clear and see what is going on. Well, I double tapped. Both were head shots, not two inches apart.

I don't know if relatives were too poor to sue, or if they knew better. Over night at the cop shop answering questions is the only time I spent down town. So the fable of all the lawsuits is bunk. If you are in the right, its not as bad as everybody says.
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Old 09-24-2014, 04:57 PM
 
1,831 posts, read 1,994,307 times
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In most areas there are laws against the public display of firearms. There is only one reason to draw. And that is to shoot because you are in fear of your life. Thus a person must develop situation awareness in order to evaluate if you are really in fear of your life. Remember the criminal must have the means, the intent, the ability, etc. Unarmed people can cause great harm and death.
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Old 09-24-2014, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,774 posts, read 3,688,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
The old adage of dead men don't testify, rings true. His family tried to bring up charges but nothing ever happened.
...
So the fable of all the lawsuits is bunk. If you are in the right, its not as bad as everybody says.
I honestly can't think of more ways you could be "in the right". You were in Texas, in your home, and were confronted by an armed intruder you did not know. You would walk free in this situation anywhere, even anti-gun states. And yet, still, "His family tried to bring up charges..." Zimmerman thought he was in the right, and based on all the evidence (even that presented by the prosecution) I agree with him. It took three prosecutors, but finally they found one willing to bow to political pressure, ignore the evidence, and bring charges. He was acquitted (of course), but without massive donations he would be paying off his legal debt for the rest of his life.

If your life is in danger of course you should draw and fire, without hesitation, aiming to stop instead of aiming to wound. Exactly what you did. Even if you do get sued it's better than being dead.

But this thread isn't about defending your home, it's about drawing a weapon in public.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 45 GUY View Post
Well, cry us a river why don't you. I'd say you know little to nothing about people who are trained to ignore fear, pain and emotion. You can do what has to be done and think little to nothing about it. Someone who is an emotional wreck never had it in them in the first place.
The question being discussed in this thread is, "Unholstering your weapon. When is it reasonable or justified?" My advice is addressed to the average citizen with a CC permit. Someone without combat training who sees how easy death is in movies and thinks they can handle it, but has no clue. Obviously a hardened combat veteran or trained SWAT officer with actual combat kills would require different advice. As this is a general internet forum with a single gun-specific board, odds are there are more average citizens on this board than there are hardened combat veterans. And just serving in the military or "training" with former military veterans does not make you a hardened combat veteran.

Personally, I've never had to use deadly force, and I hope I never do. But I train and carry in case it does happen. I tend to remain calm in emergency situations, and no one has ever accused me of being "an emotional wreck". I can draw and empty two magazine center-mass in multiple paper targets within seconds. I have every confidence that if my life, or the lives of my wife and kids, were in danger I would be able to pull the trigger without hesitation.

But I'll never brag about what I am capable of doing before I actually do it.
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Old 09-24-2014, 05:43 PM
 
18,042 posts, read 9,897,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
It was back several years and I was down in Texas doing a project for the Government. Other than my kids, I've never mentioned it, of course I told them.

The old adage of dead men don't testify, rings true. His family tried to bring up charges but nothing ever happened.

When it happened, of course I called 911 and it seemed like hours for the police to arrive. Yes, they asked me to come down town, they didn't arrest me and they didn't transport me. I got to drive myself down town. There had been a rash of home invasions over the past 60 days in my area. I have a CCW and was just setting watching TV and out of the corner of my eye I saw the knob start turning on my door. I drew my S&W .40 and waited. The door opened about a foot and the first thing through the door was a revolver.

People say that you anticipate, you think, you????? I have trained all my life to react, and I did. I have always trained myself to double tap, clear and see what is going on. Well, I double tapped. Both were head shots, not two inches apart.

I don't know if relatives were too poor to sue, or if they knew better. Over night at the cop shop answering questions is the only time I spent down town. So the fable of all the lawsuits is bunk. If you are in the right, its not as bad as everybody says.
That was a pretty clear situation, on your property, even in your house, and the perp was armed. So it doesn't surprise me at all that you had no trouble with it. You can't generalize that over situations occurring on someone else's property.

All of my elders--father and uncles and a couple of older cousins--are combat veterans of Korea and Vietnam. In their 80s, all that started to "come back on them" as they sat and waited for death to finally come for them.
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Old 09-24-2014, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,774 posts, read 3,688,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 45 GUY View Post
Anyone who has "been there, done that" doesn't talk so much b******t!
Now they look real shaken up, don't they?
I watched all three videos. Thank you for proving my point.

Chris Kyle:
All the bragging was by the interviewer, a woman who has probably never held a weapon. Chris only bragged about the accomplishments of the men he served with who died. Early on, he even hesitated before acknowledging his own confirmed kills. At time mark 5:27:
Interviewer: "You're good at it." [killing]
Chris Kyle: "I was decent at it."
I: "What if killing people turns out to be the thing you were better at than anything."
CK: "No, that's not true. I'm a better husband and father than I was a killer."

Carlos Hathcock:
Again, all the bragging was done by the narrator. Other than the moment when he was discussing the mindset you have to be in when confronting someone trying to kill you ("I'm better than him"), he was doing nothing more than giving a factual account of the events. The interviewer had to keep prompting him for details.

Chuck Mawhinney:
Yet again, all the bragging was by the narrator. Chuck was only giving a factual account of what happened. It wasn't shown, but I'd bet money his talking was pieced together clips where the interviewer's prompting was cut out.

Important take-away here: All these event happened in active war zones with armed combatants on both side. I can't see how this relates to drawing a weapon to thwart a mugging.

All these men are genuine bad-***es being asked direct questions which they answered. None of them would come to an internet forum and boast about how many men they had killed, nor about how easily they'd be able to handle a thug robbing a couple in an alley.
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Old 09-24-2014, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,475,159 times
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I live in a state that Concealed carry is the law. Anybody can do it, no permit is required. 3-4 years back, Wyoming passed the law allowing any citizen to carry concealed. Since then, there have been zero laws broken. People took it to heart and have been responsible. I have a ccw so that I can have reciprocacy with other states, but do not need one to carry concealed within Wyoming. I don't need big brothers permission.

Even though it was not required of me (ex military) I still played for and attended the training so that I would be familiar with the laws in the state. Any time you unholster, you had better be prepared to squeeze the trigger. If you unholster to threaten, you are brandishing the weapon and it is illegal.
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Old 09-25-2014, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,475,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4UY View Post
It should be instinctive and be muscle memory....you don't even think. If you think, you might not go through with it. Thhe time comes, you knowe question one gut hereuys asked was "so how do we know when that time is?" The answer...

using, there's
Our ARF guy had the time to draw and spend time hiding his weapon under his shirt, argue with suspect, let the suspect toss him to the ground, shoot two bullet holes in him and question him about his empty holster and where the gun was......before SHOOTING!!

Um yeah, guy.....you are JUSTIFIED!!


Lucky he isn't dead, he's not too bright or the sharpest knife in the drawer.
You are absolutely correct. When the time. ones, you know. There is no hesitation, no questioning yourself, its just do or die.

I wear an inside wastsband poly holster and I find myself grabbing when there are noises. But, I live along the river, 21 miles from town, so when the gjenny hens start squaking, there is something up. I have had bear,moose, elk, deer, mountain lions in my yard,not 20 feet from my door. Its usually pretty quiet here. No phone cables no cable TV. Completely wireless out here. If the horses, chickens start. fussing or more importantly, the gienny hens start squaking, something is up. Gienny bens are the best watchdogs money can buy. Of course the eggs are an added benefit, only it takes about 10 eggs to make a decent omslit. 10x gienny eggs or one duck egg.. hahas. From my cabin, I can't even see a street or yard light. Pretty dark out here and quiet.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:49 PM
 
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it's spelled guinea, and if you hit them in the head once, why/how are they still there for you to hit the head yet again? were you using a .25?
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Old 10-08-2014, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,475,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garvan View Post
it's spelled guinea, and if you hit them in the head once, why/how are they still there for you to hit the head yet again? were you using a .25?
Did you understand what kind of bird it was, even though I misspelled it????? Are you part of the spelling police? Just curious, I'll start using a spell checker so that I don't offend you.

Guess you don't understand double tap.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:48 AM
 
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In answer to the OP,

Not when you "feel" your life is in danger but when you understand and know your life is in danger. The process of unholstering and firing your firearm should be done fairly quickly and closely timed to one another.

If you unholster and then fire and then have time to contemplate, you've waited around too long and could have left the area, under the protection of a drawn weapon.

The "feeling" is way over used and came about from standard law enforcement report writing. It was deemed easier to defend feeling your life was in danger than properly articulating why.

While feeling your life is in danger is an accepted reason for using a firearm to defend one's life, better make sure that you can articulate in very clear terms why you felt that way because after the shooting comes the lawsuit and that feeling you had will be dissected by people who were not there, probably never ha such a feeling and could care less how you felt. It will come down to fact and the reasonableness of your interpretation of them.

If your feeling was justified but you can't prove it, you'll likely spend the rest of your life paying for it, one more than one way.

Carrying a firearm doesn't make you the police and gives you the means to protect your life through the use of deadly force. If you have time to watch something unfold, you have time to exit the area. Your job isn't to be the backup for anyone because you carry a firearm.

If anything, if possible you exit the area and observe from cover if you can and call for assistance if possible and practical.

If you can leave, then you draw and protect your life and the lives of your family, not the rest of the town or get into gun battles with the bad guys.
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