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Old 09-22-2014, 07:59 PM
 
156 posts, read 102,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
I know you are talking about the M16A2 (now A4, mostly).

However, the shift has gone to the M4A1 and MK18's. Even in Iraq/Afghanistan. The M14/SR25 are being used mountain-top to top with much better effect. The issue until 855A1 came out was that at 600m, you are "just" poking a tiny hole.

Tool should match the job, and past 400, the .308 is just a better tool until M855A1 hits civilian shelves, which will be a while if it ever does. Even then, it's some very hot ammo...
Naw man, that's with Lake City M855 Penatrators.. "green tip". 550 meters is a "point" target. 800 meters is an "area".

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
This obsession with white-glove is a thing of the past. The gas-tube is NOT to be screwed around with. There is nothing in there that a fancy pipe-cleaner will remove that 55,000-62,000Psi of superheated plasma cannot and has not already.

Institutional thinking has shifted from white-glove to "run it", pretty much, at least, at the tip of the spear. Time spent cleaning is great if you do it for the mental aspect (I enjoy it) as well as for PMI. However, it's not really all that "imperative", and white-glove is purely for the mental aspect, as it serves no functional or PMI purpose.
All my weapons get the same treatment. I always leave them spotless and pretty. Anyone who knows me always want to buy my used firearms. They know they always had the royal carpet treatment. It's habit and the way I was taught and brought up. Sure I get them filthy dirty like my GLOCK earlier in this thread. When it comes time to clean it, I always make it spotless inside and out. I even clean my magazine for a semi auto. I won't ever "carry" a dirty weapon and bet my life on it. I am afforded the luxury to designate a "range" weapon now and run it until I switch to something else. I'm carrying an identical twin and or something else at the same time.


I mean come on, you surely don't think you have that barrel clean after one pass with a Boresnake, do you? It's not even white, how would you know? That action has to be caked as well......that must be blasted out "hosed" with Gun Scrubber to get all the grime and grit out. Did you even clean your extractor there? I bet if you take a dentist pick and hit the grove, it's fugly......same for the firing pin.


Now for that GLOCK......I fully disassemble the slide as well at every cleaning and make it spotless. The amount of buildup on the extractor and firing pin block "plunger" is mind-blowing. That frame is na-na-nasty as well. That will be spotless after a few blasts of Gun Scrubber and some light toothbrush scrubbing.


Bottom line, if you bet your life on it, it should always be 110%.....not 50%. I always do a function test after reassembly as well. It better shoot the BIC pen out and all the safeties and decockers better work.
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,420,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
I used the CR-10 inside the bore. Slather patch, run it, let it sit, brush it, brush it some more, patch it, repeat as necessary. Last patch must be clean.

The brake cleaner is only used on disassembled bolts, inside the lower receiver near the trigger assembly, upper- things like that. It REALLY helps me out on my Ruger Mark IV .22 pistol. That puppy is a BEAR to get really clean.

But yeah- you have to keep it off of plastics, wood- use only on metal (and outside).
I don't use brake cleaner, but rather Brake Free. When I was competing, it is all I used. Nothing as harsh as brake cleaner.
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:39 PM
 
156 posts, read 102,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
I don't use brake cleaner, but rather Brake Free. When I was competing, it is all I used. Nothing as harsh as brake cleaner.
Otherwise known as "CLP" U.S.G.I.!!
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Old 09-22-2014, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Night Eyes View Post
Otherwise known as "CLP" U.S.G.I.!!
Wouldn't know, in the US Navy, we bought Brake Free by the gallon and it was actual Brake Free.
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Old 09-22-2014, 09:55 PM
 
156 posts, read 102,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
Wouldn't know, in the US Navy, we bought Brake Free by the gallon and it was actual Brake Free.
It is, that's why it works of course.


Break Free Mil Spec CLP 1 Gallon Bottle CLP-7
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:00 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Night Eyes View Post
Naw man, that's with Lake City M855 Penatrators.. "green tip". 550 meters is a "point" target. 800 meters is an "area".

Yes, the best I've gotten from M855 was 1.8 MOA at 200m. That happened to be the distance I was shooting at. 10 shot group. I am aware of the TM's statement of the 550m Point, 800 Area, but at that distance, really, a .308 is a much better choice.

All my weapons get the same treatment. I always leave them spotless and pretty. Anyone who knows me always want to buy my used firearms. They know they always had the royal carpet treatment. It's habit and the way I was taught and brought up. Sure I get them filthy dirty like my GLOCK earlier in this thread. When it comes time to clean it, I always make it spotless inside and out. I even clean my magazine for a semi auto. I won't ever "carry" a dirty weapon and bet my life on it. I am afforded the luxury to designate a "range" weapon now and run it until I switch to something else. I'm carrying an identical twin and or something else at the same time. I have several of most things, as well. It's a good practice. However, a weapon cleaned as I showed is not "dirty" any more than your vehicle's motor is "dirty" because you don't remove the heads and clean the piston tops every oil-change. That is about what you are doing amounts to. It isn't necessarily a good thing, although if you do it PROPERLY, it's not bad, either, really.


I mean come on, you surely don't think you have that barrel clean after one pass with a Boresnake, do you? It's not even white, how would you know? That action has to be caked as well......that must be blasted out "hosed" with Gun Scrubber to get all the grime and grit out. Did you even clean your extractor there? I bet if you take a dentist pick and hit the grove, it's fugly......same for the firing pin.

I didn't show extractor removal, but please see the video below. The "action" was just fine, as well. Technically I could NEVER clean my M4 and it would work great. People over-clean them hardcore. Institutional momentum is HARD to break. As to the bore, it's just fine. Is every particle of fouling gone? No. I don't believe so. Will it shoot 1-1.5 MOA with quality ammo? Yeah. Is the chamber clean? Yes.


Now for that GLOCK......I fully disassemble the slide as well at every cleaning and make it spotless. The amount of buildup on the extractor and firing pin block "plunger" is mind-blowing. That frame is na-na-nasty as well. That will be spotless after a few blasts of Gun Scrubber and some light toothbrush scrubbing.


Bottom line, if you bet your life on it, it should always be 110%.....not 50%. I always do a function test after reassembly as well. It better shoot the BIC pen out and all the safeties and decockers better work.

Like I said, in reference to blue text, my M4 works just fine. If it works for USSOCOM, it's good enough for me. Yes, function checks are solid thinking. The level of cleaning you are talking about performing is solely for your benefit, not that of the weapon.

Here is that BCG video to show you the firing pin, etc. No, I did not show extractor disasembly, but when I taken them down after 3-400 rounds they are pretty clean, just some sludge under them. Nothing that would impede function.

You want to see nasty? Here is one of my former M4's after a little over 1600 rounds without added lube or cleaning over a 3-day course.


FIREClean lubed BCG w/@200 rounds suppressed - YouTube
*Please understand that 200 rounds suppressed is pretty filthy. The cell I used to film that sucked, weird sounds, sorry.

1600+ rounds (unsuppressed) over 3 days with no cleaning or lube added. Still functioned fine:


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Old 09-22-2014, 10:08 PM
Status: "Gone hunting until December!" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
10,948 posts, read 14,593,711 times
Reputation: 11405
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
I don't use brake cleaner, but rather Brake Free. When I was competing, it is all I used. Nothing as harsh as brake cleaner.
I've used CLP a lot too. I only use the brake cleaner spray when things are REALLY cruddy. The bolt in the Mauser was really, really bad.

We used brake cleaner on a lot of tractor parts when me and my old buddy worked on Farmall's. We'd get a freebie field tractor, usually seized up. We'd free the motor then go about cleaning years of rusted and baked on crud of with brake cleaner. Old bolts all crudded up from years of neglect- *boom* brand new again!
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:20 PM
 
156 posts, read 102,626 times
Reputation: 120
"White Glove Inspection":

USMC



Marine Corps Discipline - Rifle Inspection - YouTube



U.S. Army



Changing of the Guard - Tomb of the Unknown Soldier - YouTube




"She" (your rifle is always a girls name) better be clean......or your ass is grass!!

Never called "a gun" either!!

ALWAYS "my rifle" "my weapon".

Severe tongue lashings will occur if you forget!

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Old 09-22-2014, 10:30 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Night Eyes View Post
"White Glove Inspection":

USMC



Marine Corps Discipline - Rifle Inspection - YouTube



U.S. Army



Changing of the Guard - Tomb of the Unknown Soldier - YouTube




"She" (your rifle is always a girls name) better be clean......or your ass is grass!!

Never called "a gun" either!!

ALWAYS "my rifle" "my weapon".

Severe tongue lashings will occur if you forget!

White Glove inspection's only purpose is to inspect with white gloves or so that those soldier's uniforms remain spotless for things like the Changing of The Guard. It has no place on a fighting rifle used for fighting.
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:43 PM
 
156 posts, read 102,626 times
Reputation: 120
I forgot to mention another reason for all the banging and wanging on your girl. Rest assured if something is not put back together 100% correctly and is not in fully functional and serviceable condition....it will fall out and or rattle loose. You don't want 'that' part to hit the deck.....trust me. lol
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