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Old 09-22-2014, 10:49 PM
 
156 posts, read 102,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Like I said, in reference to blue text, my M4 works just fine. If it works for USSOCOM, it's good enough for me. Yes, function checks are solid thinking. The level of cleaning you are talking about performing is solely for your benefit, not that of the weapon.

Here is that BCG video to show you the firing pin, etc. No, I did not show extractor disasembly, but when I taken them down after 3-400 rounds they are pretty clean, just some sludge under them. Nothing that would impede function.

You want to see nasty? Here is one of my former M4's after a little over 1600 rounds without added lube or cleaning over a 3-day course.


FIREClean lubed BCG w/@200 rounds suppressed - YouTube
*Please understand that 200 rounds suppressed is pretty filthy. The cell I used to film that sucked, weird sounds, sorry.

1600+ rounds (unsuppressed) over 3 days with no cleaning or lube added. Still functioned fine:

At least you clean it....which is what this thread is about. I see countless guys bring in a filthy weapon to sell or trade at the shows and get POed when someone won't give them what they want out of it. You have to at least keep it halfways presentable. Even the average shooter doesn't like looking at a piece of crap.
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:57 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,748 posts, read 2,615,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Night Eyes View Post
I forgot to mention another reason for all the banging and wanging on your girl. Rest assured if something is not put back together 100% correctly and is not in fully functional and serviceable condition....it will fall out and or rattle loose. You don't want 'that' part to hit the deck.....trust me. lol
With the M4, it really isn't so, though. A lot of what you are saying in this thread is 'Nam era SOP's. Yeah, I know in the military some people persist with the "White Glove" standard, but noone I have yet to meet who I consider on the tip of the spear (CRANE/NSW/USSOCOM, basically) does it that way anymore. Many of the people I know don't clean an M4 at all. Just add lube. The guns work fine.

What happened with the white-glove deal is a bit tradition, a bit show, and a lot backlash from the military using the wrong powder and not even issuing cleaning kits with the M16, initially. The powder had a large amount of calcium which clogged gas-tubes. Once the powder was switched to what Stoner originally wanted, the issues went away. Currently, the M4 can go for the life of the barrel/bolt without cleaning, if you just add lube. It's a great weapon system.

Now, I don't do that, because it just gets messy, and I have nice microsuede seats in my vehicle, and...

So, I clean per my videos that I have posted. The things run great. I see no need for cleaning beyond that other than "I like to clean", which is fine, but then you have to heat the parts, etc. or I bet you will find flash-rust on your barrel extension and BCG from your love of an aerosol solvent that removes ALL protective grease/oil and cools the part well below the dew point (brake cleaner). That is one reason I don't do it. It offers zero gain for that surface rust.

Also, have you ever seen an old-school mechanics tools? He wipes them down and some will oil them, some just allow the shop-rag/oil on the tool to do it. Ever notice how they are all rust free, even years after they put them down? I was going through my grandpa's tools a few years ago, and I noticed that about them. The oil and grease have seeped into the surface of the metal, the pores, if you will, and stayed there. Probably since the first time the tools were used. Rust-free, and smooth-ratcheting. Timeless. If you have worked around/with older quality tools, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Well, that's how my M4's feel and work. That's the best way I can describe how it is to never strip away the protective layer of lubricant on and within the pores of the metal's surface. It's just not good for anything unless you are de-greasing to allow rocksett (muzzle device) or loc-tite (anything bolted to the rifle, BUIS, etc.) to properly adhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Night Eyes View Post
At least you clean it....which is what this thread is about. I see countless guys bring in a filthy weapon to sell or trade at the shows and get POed when someone won't give them what they want out of it. You have to at least keep it halfways presentable. Even the average shooter doesn't like looking at a piece of crap.
Of course, but it's due to slight OCD, and the microsuede seats in my vehicle that I clean as much as I do. Like I said, my friends go through barrels and bolts between cleanings.

Here is an example of someone who bothered to publish the process:




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Old 09-22-2014, 11:47 PM
 
156 posts, read 102,676 times
Reputation: 120
Nobody said anything about not relubing it after you degreased and degunked it though. Adding more lube to a messy weapon just acts as a lapping compound over time. You have to get it off sooner or later. A lot of guys found out over in the sandbox that you need to clean all the more. Your weapon works while your stubborn buddy has issues. My weapon gets cleaned before I get any shuteye or even poop.
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:58 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,748 posts, read 2,615,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Night Eyes View Post
Nobody said anything about not relubing it after you degreased and degunked it though. Adding more lube to a messy weapon just acts as a lapping compound over time. You have to get it off sooner or later. A lot of guys found out over in the sandbox that you need to clean all the more. Your weapon works while your stubborn buddy has issues. My weapon gets cleaned before I get any shuteye or even poop.


If I were in the sand-box, my method would still work great (wipe the parts clean, re-lube).

As to adding lube after you de-grease, you then have water as well as lube. When you hose crap off with that brake-cleaner, you get flash-rust almost immediately in my experience (I used to do all the same stuff you did, to the letter. Now, my weapons run better, and I waste less time), and/or you get condensation (water) on the parts.

It's just not something I want on or near my firearms. There is nothing you can accomplish, functionally, that I am not accomplishing, as well.
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:08 AM
 
156 posts, read 102,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
If I were in the sand-box, my method would still work great (wipe the parts clean, re-lube).

As to adding lube after you de-grease, you then have water as well as lube. When you hose crap off with that brake-cleaner, you get flash-rust almost immediately in my experience (I used to do all the same stuff you did, to the letter. Now, my weapons run better, and I waste less time), and/or you get condensation (water) on the parts.

It's just not something I want on or near my firearms. There is nothing you can accomplish, functionally, that I am not accomplishing, as well.
I don't use brake cleaner though, the other guys do. I use "Gun Scrubber".....it's not $3.99 on sale at Auto Zone acid wash. It was designed and made just for firearms. The sandbox? Ha, neither I or anyone else I know has set foot in that ***thole since '06.

That's how they did it back then too!!
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:15 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,748 posts, read 2,615,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Night Eyes View Post
I don't use brake cleaner though, the other guys do. I use "Gun Scrubber".....it's not $3.99 on sale at Auto Zone acid wash. It was designed and made just for firearms. The sandbox? Ha, neither I or anyone else I know has set foot in that ***thole since '06.

That's how they did it back then too!!
I have friends that were there quite recently. I have never heard of them using gunscrubber. They might, though. Dunno...

Most of them don't worry about stuff like that, though. They clean similar to how I do (who I learned it from...), or not at all.

You can call it what you want, it's an aerosol cleaner that removes all traces of lubricant from a piece of metal while simultaneously dropping said metal below the humidity point due to its quick evaporation. Yes, I've watched it rust the surface of a mil-spec BCG before.

That type of "cleaning" serves no purpose as relates to the function, inspection, or use of the firearm. It's purely to suite the owner.
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:22 AM
 
156 posts, read 102,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
I have friends that were there quite recently. I have never heard of them using gunscrubber. They might, though. Dunno...

Most of them don't worry about stuff like that, though. They clean similar to how I do (who I learned it from...), or not at all.

You can call it what you want, it's an aerosol cleaner that removes all traces of lubricant from a piece of metal while simultaneously dropping said metal below the humidity point due to its quick evaporation. Yes, I've watched it rust the surface of a mil-spec BCG before.

That type of "cleaning" serves no purpose as relates to the function, inspection, or use of the firearm. It's purely to suite the owner.
You can get by without it, but it will take you longer than 15 minutes and 2 beers to get it clean without it. Still takes me well over an hour using it........even on a Colt!
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:30 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,748 posts, read 2,615,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Night Eyes View Post
You can get by without it, but it will take you longer than 15 minutes and 2 beers to get it clean without it. Still takes me well over an hour using it........even on a Colt!
Like I said, if that's what you enjoy, motor on, but it's purely for your enjoyment at that point. I would personally suggest not using aerosols because of the flash-rust they can and do cause when the metal drops below the humidity point, especially in places you cannot reach to wipe off.
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:40 AM
 
156 posts, read 102,676 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Like I said, if that's what you enjoy, motor on, but it's purely for your enjoyment at that point. I would personally suggest not using aerosols because of the flash-rust they can and do cause when the metal drops below the humidity point, especially in places you cannot reach to wipe off.
071-311-2025 (SL1).......for all the ex U.S. Army guys in the house.

U.S. Marines don't need instructions to know what to do....



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Old 09-23-2014, 12:45 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,748 posts, read 2,615,120 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak Night Eyes View Post
071-311-2025 (SL1).......for all the ex U.S. Army guys in the house.

U.S. Marines don't need instructions to know what to do....

I bet my former roommate wishes the US Marine who had his M16 before him had been instructed not to shove a q-tip into the gas key...

You will note the lack of aerosol cleaners alluded to in your link, and the numerous places the terms "wipe" and "wiping" are used...kindof like I demonstrated.
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