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Old 10-08-2014, 07:19 AM
 
245 posts, read 227,318 times
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once the maker has orders, stock and set up machinery, they are knocking out a "can" every few minutes, actually. Much, much less work involved than making a $600 AR15.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:32 AM
 
245 posts, read 227,318 times
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If you know to include a "sleeve tube" around the baffle holding interior tube (weld shut the sleeve area, both ends) and know to vent the hottest, highest temp gases into that sealed area, and have the right items in that area to absorb the heat energy, a suppressor need not blow extra gases back into the action of an AR15. So a DI gas system works fine with this sort of a can.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:50 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garvan View Post
once the maker has orders, stock and set up machinery, they are knocking out a "can" every few minutes, actually. Much, much less work involved than making a $600 AR15.

I've got to disagree. You've oversimplified it greatly, and you don't know how long it actually takes to manufacture a quality suppressor. What goes into the suppressors I buy:

-Wire EDM bore
-Inconel 7XX alloy
-Dozens and dozens of QA/QC checks on dimensions (several dozen just for the mount itself).
-POI shift verification of <1MOA


So on and so forth. I don't think you really understand it. Most people don't.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Wartrace,TN
5,269 posts, read 8,216,301 times
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I agree. There is no reason a suppressor should cost anywhere near that providing there is a large enough market. If the manufacturer only sold a couple hundred per year then setup costs and tooling might bump up the price a bit but nowhere near 1200 dollars. How much raw material is there in a can? My guess is under 300 dollars if they are using titanium.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:52 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
Reputation: 2653
Quote:
Originally Posted by garvan View Post
If you know to include a "sleeve tube" around the baffle holding interior tube (weld shut the sleeve area, both ends) and know to vent the hottest, highest temp gases into that sealed area, and have the right items in that area to absorb the heat energy, a suppressor need not blow extra gases back into the action of an AR15. So a DI gas system works fine with this sort of a can.

It's not that a suppressor blows gas back into the action, and it doesn't even matter that the system is DI or piston or whatever. The longer pressure-drop/area under the curve is what results in gasses washing backwards down the bore. Unlocking of the action occurs before the pressure in the suppressor is normalized. The only suppressor that currently does not do this is OSS, and they do to a VERY SMALL degree, as well. I personally am not a fan because their designs are very complex, and without the suppressor mounted, it exposes a lot of finely finished guts on the end of the weapon.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:55 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wartrace View Post
I agree. There is no reason a suppressor should cost anywhere near that providing there is a large enough market. If the manufacturer only sold a couple hundred per year then setup costs and tooling might bump up the price a bit but nowhere near 1200 dollars. How much raw material is there in a can? My guess is under 20 dollars.
It depends. I only buy US Cert. Inconel suppressors with QD attachments.
You want cheap? Here:

Will it perform as well as the AAC and Surefire and KAC offerings? Probably to someone who only cares about sound reduction, sure.

The Proto Tac PT-199 Suppressor
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:27 AM
 
1,176 posts, read 1,896,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garvan View Post
once the maker has orders, stock and set up machinery, they are knocking out a "can" every few minutes, actually. Much, much less work involved than making a $600 AR15.
Sort of.

Building a simple tube with M baffles, a blast chamber and threads concentric to the bore IS pretty simple. Anyone can do it, even just with hand tools. I've been meaning to submit a Form1 for a NAPA 4003 fuel filter silencer for a while now but haven't gotten around to it. The 4003 filter is just a threaded section of 2" 2024 aluminum (I think the I.D. is 1.81, but I can't remember offhand) he figures that I'm coming up with for yield pressures would indicate a 200% safety factor for .300 BO and a little more for 7.62x39. Building a stack of baffles and press fitting them with the thread end of the adapter would be a pretty simple operation and would cost about $50 before the tax stamp. You wouldn't want to do any rapid fire with it, but any po-boy with some mechanical aptitude could build it.

Machining a bunch of baffles with a lot of advanced geometry, modeling gas flows, making it user serviceable, making it really quiet, making it really light, making it safe and warranty-able represents a lot of design hours and a lot of know-how that also factors into the cost of the end product. On top of that, you have to pay employees, taxes, NFA licenses, etc. and you have to be able to make a profit. I'm not sure that it can be accurately characterized as a ripoff. Instead, I think it would be more accurate to say that high-quality, well-engineered products with a very limited domestic market tend to be relatively expensive.

If the United States made more sense and silencers were not considered an NFA item but rather an important piece of safety gear and a courtesy to bystanders and neighbors and you could buy one as easily as you can buy a sack of potatoes, then I think that a $1200 silencer would have to be a very special bit of gear and $150-$200 for a run of the mill silencer would be a reality... But that's not the world we live in, is it?

I guess the bottom line is that those $1200 suppressor still sell... How much do you think it cost to manufacture your cell phone? How much did you pay? (Now THAT is a ripoff)

Last edited by Cleonidas; 10-08-2014 at 09:49 AM..
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Old 10-08-2014, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,194 posts, read 17,683,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
I've got to disagree. You've oversimplified it greatly, and you don't know how long it actually takes to manufacture a quality suppressor. What goes into the suppressors I buy:

-Wire EDM bore
-Inconel 7XX alloy
-Dozens and dozens of QA/QC checks on dimensions (several dozen just for the mount itself).
-POI shift verification of <1MOA


So on and so forth. I don't think you really understand it. Most people don't.
It's not just the manufacturing processes and materials - there's a lot of engineering (product development/time) that goes into them, as well.
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Old 10-08-2014, 03:59 PM
 
7,282 posts, read 8,380,090 times
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The price of things isn't figured out by how much the materials cost nor the time to actually produce the product unless it is a commodity.

Anything anyone does is simple if you break it down to the single step process.

To make the silencer, someone needs some knowledge and education. That takes time and costs money. Someone then has to figure out a market and market their idea and products. That takes time and costs money. The machinery to make prototypes costs money and it takes time and money to learn how to use them properly. Then there are the business licenses, the paperwork and all that, just as a few examples of what it takes. Getting the picture?

So after someone has spent probably many thousands of dollars, taken years to educate themselves and dedicate the time needed to gain the skills to produce the silencer, your idea of a ripoff comes down to the cost of the materials and how little that is compared to the price you pay?

Most of us here could afford to buy the raw materials that comprise the human body. You wouldn't use that as a way to calculate the worth of a human being would you? Yes, it is the same because it took a human being to make that silencer.

If it was so easy and actually costs so little, then make your own.
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Old 10-08-2014, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,194 posts, read 17,683,182 times
Reputation: 7980
There's one additional thing that nobody ever thinks about but the cost of which is built into the product: insurance.

I'd be willing to bet that a company that makes a firearm accessory that has anything to do with the actual firing of the gun probably has to carry a pretty hefty liability insurance policy. Then there's the lawyers and other overhead that goes along with being the target of every anti-gun zealot out there. There's also a VERY limited market for them, so of course the prices will go up. It has to be worth their while to produce these things for such a small number of buyers.
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