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Old 10-31-2014, 12:53 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,538,974 times
Reputation: 5210

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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post


swagger, it sounds like you should let your feet do your talking and take your tax revenue to another state.
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Old 10-31-2014, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
8,855 posts, read 4,826,319 times
Reputation: 7680
I have trouble enough trying to get my boss to the range and he's pro gun......sort of.

But let's take the challenge a little bit further. Do you allow them to shoot one of yours? If so, which one, which level of skill is needed. Ie, do you let them shoot a 9 mm or a .45? A .22 rifle or a .308?

Or do you tell them to pick something out of the rental case and you'll pay the fees?

Personally, I'd probably go for the rental, just because if something does go wrong, it falls on the range and not on me (or not me as much).
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Princeton
1,078 posts, read 1,051,726 times
Reputation: 2132
I don't care what the anti-gun people think, I'll always vote for our rights. All I know is this, I just had to qualify again with my service rig, I've been out of the game for awhile, I took in the day with my son a few other DHS Special Agents and Police Officers retired or other wise, a great day for all.

We all sat in a class for some time before we took in the lanes, did we have to? no, but we did anyway, while we we're there, I saw people of all ages watching us and we were watching them, and they were all very good, you can see, they all classed up first rate training from their Range Instructors, a lot were women, not all, but there was a big crowd there enjoying the day.

I saw a Boy Scout Troop who were very squared away and buttoned up shooting Bows in the back that made these kids look like the 75th Ranger Regiment. The kids were squared away around the range and we're very skilled, almost professional like attitude, we were very impressed with them all. Anyways, they'll pass pot laws, they'll pass laws for useless people on the doles, they'll let illegal criminals drive and vote get locked up twice or more without being deported, but they'll never leave us alone, even if you work with a side rig legally, your still looked upon as someone who should know better. Simple Stupid.

They just don't get it.
Thanks,
Knight
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Suburban wasteland of NC
250 posts, read 150,473 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
I take it you haven't read I-594. If you're not from WA don't worry, His Excellency will be bringing his political machine to your state soon enough.

I fully support the OP's idea. I'm a member at a range that allows guests for free and I've taken pretty much everyone who wanted to go over the years. However, once I-594 passes the only way to legally take someone to the range would be to swing by an 01 FFL on the way there, they pay $30 + 9.3% usage tax on the gun they'll shoot, fill out a 4473, call NICS and wait to hear back, then proceed. After the range trip (where you can't handle your own gun, since it's now their gun) you'll want to swing back by a 01 FFL to repeat those steps so you can legally get your gun back.

Last edited by happygeek; 10-31-2014 at 08:29 AM..
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Old 10-31-2014, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,773 posts, read 3,677,539 times
Reputation: 4236
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
I have trouble enough trying to get my boss to the range and he's pro gun......sort of.

But let's take the challenge a little bit further. Do you allow them to shoot one of yours? If so, which one, which level of skill is needed. Ie, do you let them shoot a 9 mm or a .45? A .22 rifle or a .308?

Or do you tell them to pick something out of the rental case and you'll pay the fees?

Personally, I'd probably go for the rental, just because if something does go wrong, it falls on the range and not on me (or not me as much).
If you're worried about a lawsuit then you'd better not go. Or better yet, don't take someone you think would sue you if they messed up.

But back on topic... Depends on the person, but for many the first gun will be a .22LR, but it can be much bigger within reason. If you start them on a full-power .45ACP; a pump 12ga with 3" magnum shells, or a full-power long-range rifle they'll never pick up a gun again.

Handguns/Indoor range: For a smallish female maybe something as big as a medium-size .380ACP (most definitely NOT a pocket-sized version). My wife's Walther PK380 is a great-shooting gun that is semi-compact but handles like a full-size in her small hands. For a larger person, a full-size 9mm semi (Glock, SA9, S&W MP9, Walther PPQ, etc.) can be a complete joy to shoot.

For shotguns, a full-size double-barrel or semi-auto 20-ga with light target loads. Do NOT use an ultra-lightweight or "youth" model.

For rifles, go with a pistol-cartridge carbine or a .223 (preferably a manual-type action, but there's an argument to allowing them to shoot an AR with its extremely light buffered recoil). You want something with more power than a .22, but nothing that will scare them. Max out at something like a .243Win, but always keep the recoil energy and velocity in the single digits for the first outing. I follow a Liberal blogger who enjoys guns. He recently purchased a .243 "sniper rifle" (his words) for picking off coyotes going after his livestock and he loves it.

ALSO IMPORTANT: If shooting long-guns use recoil pads or thick clothing.
MOST IMPORTANT: Always use proper eye and ear protection. A large percentage of the "pain" associated with recoil can actually be ear pain. Good muffs can make the difference between a miserable afternoon and the start of a new hobby.
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Old 10-31-2014, 03:33 PM
 
Location: West Phoenix
769 posts, read 889,736 times
Reputation: 1894
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
I have trouble enough trying to get my boss to the range and he's pro gun......sort of.

But let's take the challenge a little bit further. Do you allow them to shoot one of yours? If so, which one, which level of skill is needed. Ie, do you let them shoot a 9 mm or a .45? A .22 rifle or a .308?

Or do you tell them to pick something out of the rental case and you'll pay the fees?

Personally, I'd probably go for the rental, just because if something does go wrong, it falls on the range and not on me (or not me as much).
In my case, they will shoot mine, I have a very diverse collection to from, from 1863 to present day.
from .22 to .58 caliber
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Old 10-31-2014, 03:52 PM
 
7,282 posts, read 8,382,550 times
Reputation: 11407
Trying to take an anti-gun proponent to a range is like trying to take a democrat to the republican convention. They might go but could care less what you say, think or do.

When something becomes an ideology such as being anti-gun, you aren't going to change a lot of those folks, they really believe what they say and think.

You will have a much greater impact by taking people to the range who haven't yet formed an opinion one way or the other. Spend time on the people that can see your way of thinking and are still open to accepting that not every gun owner is nuts.
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Old 10-31-2014, 03:52 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,538,974 times
Reputation: 5210
Quote:
Originally Posted by happygeek View Post
I take it you haven't read I-594. If you're not from WA don't worry, His Excellency will be bringing his political machine to your state soon enough.

I fully support the OP's idea. I'm a member at a range that allows guests for free and I've taken pretty much everyone who wanted to go over the years. However, once I-594 passes the only way to legally take someone to the range would be to swing by an 01 FFL on the way there, they pay $30 + 9.3% usage tax on the gun they'll shoot, fill out a 4473, call NICS and wait to hear back, then proceed. After the range trip (where you can't handle your own gun, since it's now their gun) you'll want to swing back by a 01 FFL to repeat those steps so you can legally get your gun back.


I will say that it will probably never happen in Wyoming, this is a massive gun state and talking about limiting firearms in this state is a real fast way to shorten your political life span.
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Old 10-31-2014, 04:41 PM
 
11,697 posts, read 16,443,612 times
Reputation: 16335
Took a NJ Democrat to SASS. Came home with a convinced SASS shooter. Does that count?
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,415,173 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
Trying to take an anti-gun proponent to a range is like trying to take a democrat to the republican convention. They might go but could care less what you say, think or do.

When something becomes an ideology such as being anti-gun, you aren't going to change a lot of those folks, they really believe what they say and think.

You will have a much greater impact by taking people to the range who haven't yet formed an opinion one way or the other. Spend time on the people that can see your way of thinking and are still open to accepting that not every gun owner is nuts.
Not the case, in my opinion. I changed the minds of many when I was State Program Manager for Shooting Education. When I started, there were 3 towns involved. At the end of my term, there were 38 towns enrolled and active. I saw a lot of definite anti moms suddenly involved and eagerly cheering on there kids. On the side, out of my own rifles and them buying the ammo, I held private instruction.
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