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Old 11-12-2014, 11:57 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,749 posts, read 2,625,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
Yes, a revolver can malfunction. But under the same conditions (dirt, gunk, rust, etc.) any revolver will continue to function long after a similar-quality semi-auto will start malfunctioning. The same junk that stops a revolver by getting caught between the forcing cone and cylinder can interfere with the slide on a semi much more easily. I've not seen it happen. Not saying it can't, but I have had revolvers jam up.

The advantages to a modern double-action revolver (for a beginning shooter, or one who doesn't practice) include:
1) no safeties to fiddle with; Same as a Glock/M&P, etc...
2) no slide to rack; Yeah, but who's racking a slide? The weapon should already be loaded. You want to argue about racking the slide vs. operating a cylinder and speed loader cleanly under stress for the reload? The reload that will take place 2x sooner with the revolver?
3) no need to remember if a round is chambered or not; It's always chambered. Period.
4) no chance of a common "limp-wrist" caused failure. You have to try pretty hard to limp-wrist a SIG, but a Glock is a little easier. Why not see if this is a real issue before looking for a solution? The real issue (and solution), IMO, would be training.

Yes, I am aware of videos where someone buries a Glock for "n" years, digs it up, cleans it, and shoots it. A good revolver will work the same way. Maybe, maybe not, but we aren't burying the weapon. Chances are both the revolver and the semi-auto will run dry without a malfunction, the revolver will just run dry much sooner.

Yes, I'm aware of videos where people demonstrate how quickly they can swap magazines or clear jams. This advice is to a new gunowner, not a wanna-be Rambo who practices regularly. Right. So competent users are "wannabe rambo's" Excuse use who actually know how to use what we carry...That "new gun owner" needs some training. Do you expect them to actually be FASTER with a revolver reload?! The fastest reload is the one that never happens...because you have twice the ammo capacity and don't need to reload (as soon as the revolver owner). Effectively, someone with a G19 gets "a free light-speed reload with no chance of fumbling the mag" compared to the revolver owner. BOOM! Impossible to beat.

My advice is the same as always. If, and only if, you:
- buy a quality, reliable semi-auto firearm;
- use quality, reliable defense ammunition;
- train regularly and practice failure drills; and
- are confident enough to leave the weapon loaded and chambered so you don't have to fiddle with loading it;
then you should consider trusting a semi-auto to defend your life. Otherwise, get a good DA revolver.
I think these are minimum standards for any weapon. I won't argue against it, though. If you can't do these things safely and competently, you should not have the semi-auto pistol, I agree.

With that said, I'm not dissing semi-auto's; I carry a semi-auto. I am saying that there is no such thing as a one-size-fits all with firearms. Each person, each situation, is different. A semi-auto is best for you or me. But based on the criteria we know about the OP's daughter, a good DA hammerless revolver is the way to go.
I really feel that the OP's daughter should seek and get training. If that's too much money/too much time, then she shouldn't worry about this at all, because it's not very important apparently. We have too many people running around with a pistol because it's "their talisman" and they don't have the ability to either use it effectively or the judgement to know when lethal force is the right solution. This story is a perfect example of lethal force being used when it most likely was NOT necessary. As a person who carries a firearm, I feel responsible to know when I should and should not use it. Not just "when I can according to the law". That is a horrible attitude and mindset to have.

Mother of man shot says son "is not a thug nor a thief" - KSLA News 12 Shreveport, Louisiana News Weather & Sports

Training
Training
Training
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:59 AM
 
9,369 posts, read 15,881,239 times
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I have been shooting for 35 years and I have never seen a revolver "jam" or malfunction as you described. Unless your house is a drug house, capacity is a non issue; the burglars will be heading for the door after the first round is fired -- they are not going to stay and get in a gunfight.
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Old 11-12-2014, 01:01 PM
 
2,775 posts, read 2,597,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riley14 View Post
I am looking to purchase a firearm for home defense for my daughter. Never shot beforehand, really has no knowledge on firearms/cleaning/etc. What would you all recommend for an easy to use and not very intimidating option? Just wants to have one just in case, but one that will be effective if she ever needs it.
As others have mentioned - training with knowledge of the law is key. There are websites devoted to individuals who had their lives all but wrecked after using a gun in self defense (and killing or just wounding the perp). One can look forward to 2 years of legal battles and the associated legal fees to defend yourself in Court after justifiably defending yourself at your home! As long as you understand this legal risk and do the right training then you are on the right path. The number one weapon to have for home self defense is actually whatever you have on hand nearby when you need it.... in terms of a firearm, a shotgun, not a handgun. Shotguns have real stopping power (getting hit with one will take the fight right out of anyone - even if only in the arm or leg) while Handguns need more precision to stop someone.

I have a handgun on hand as do my friends and family, but realistically, it's more for the hobby that I have one... I love target shooting and have belonged to leagues. I also enjoy re-loading shells. The number one thing I have done for home defense is: I live in a safe area so I don't have to worry about break-ins or night-time assaults. The number two thing is that know and train in real-world self-defense techniques. The fact that I have a handgun on hand is just a tertiary coincidence. I'm not likely to ever need to use it or even brandish it upon a perp. I happen to have a revolver and a semi-auto. If you are looking for a recommendation, I would buy only new, and I would buy a revolver as they are easy to use, maintain, and are extremely reliable. In any case, your daughter absolutely should go to a gun store counter and try the trigger pull and loading processes for whatever firearm she is considering purchasing as she may have physical limitations that won't be known until she tries to dry-fire one at the counter (for example my mother could not handle pulling a slide back on a semi-auto, so getting one did not make sense).

To the OP - you need to change your mindset and that of your daughter's. A firearm in the hands of someone untrained is ridiculously dangerous and useless. If your daughter cannot move to an area that makes much more sense home security-wise, then she ought to first consider things such as mace and pepper spray. If she still feels in danger, then she needs to look into real-world self defense training. If that's still not enough, then a shotgun with appropriate training to use safely (and membership in a shooting league) is what I recommend.

Last edited by belovenow; 11-12-2014 at 01:11 PM..
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Old 11-12-2014, 06:56 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,749 posts, read 2,625,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
I have been shooting for 35 years and I have never seen a revolver "jam" or malfunction as you described. Unless your house is a drug house, capacity is a non issue; the burglars will be heading for the door after the first round is fired -- they are not going to stay and get in a gunfight.
I have a Super Redhawk. The cylinder bound in less than 3 cylinders-full of .44 special. Why? The soft lead. It accumulated on the back of the forcing cone/front of the cylinder. It took some .44 mag to blow it free. It was very difficult to fire as cylinder drag was terrible. It showed me that the .003-.008" gap typical in this region was a very critical thing...

As to capacity being a non-issue, you are thinking rationally. Would YOU break into a house at 2am hoping to score some jewelry? Okay, then. Your mindset is not the one in question. We are talking about an angry X boyfriend. A coke fiend looking to score something that will get them a few more lines. A meth head mad at the world. Whatever. But not YOU, most likely. People take a lot of stopping, sometimes. A full cylinder full of .357 magnum in his assailant's upper torso at near contact distance did not save officer Coates from his assailant (who lived and was convicted of the officer's murder as recorded on camera) So presuming that a criminal will think rationally, with self-preservation in mind, etc. is a fallacy. Further, not every shot you fire is going to hit the target necessarily. I used to make fun of the 20-30% hit-ratio police officers average in OIS's until I actually did simunition work in structures. Yes...it really is a good day if 20-30% of the rounds you fire hit someone who is also shooting at you, running, and using cover while you do the same. Try it sometime if you haven't. It was a real "wake-up" call to me, who used to think that "Hey, I'll put several in the chest, no problem, why can't these police officers all over the news just do the same?"

Well, sometimes you can. Sometimes you can't. Sometimes the badguys stand there like idiots. Sometimes they don't.

What would have happened if this burglary attempt had pressed a little harder by someone who was more determined and armed with his own firearm or who was on drugs that numbed his semi-rational instincts? Momma was outta bullets...
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local...ntruder/nTm7s/

PS. Mom ambushed the guy as he opened the door. Sounds like she had a 66% hit radio on a close, minimally moving, non-attacking target. Not bad at all under a stressful situation! So what if there were 2 of those guys?...

Last edited by JWG223; 11-12-2014 at 07:06 PM..
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:30 PM
 
16,555 posts, read 17,682,015 times
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I have a Taurus 605 357 magnum revolver got my wife. Bought laser grips. I load it with Glazer ammo. Imo Revolvers are simple to aim fire and with quick loaders easy to reload if needed. Autos are great also but require a few extra steps.
But really it's whatever she feels comfortable with

I took my wife in and signed her up for a revolver safety course. With a woman instructor. After the course we went to a range and shot multiple different guns. I still think the 357 was a bit much so for practice I load it with 38s. I figure if she ever had to actualky shoot it she will never feel the recoil with the adrenalin dump in her system.
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:36 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,749 posts, read 2,625,560 times
Reputation: 2659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
I have a Taurus 605 357 magnum revolver got my wife. Bought laser grips. I load it with Glazer ammo. Imo Revolvers are simple to aim fire and with quick loaders easy to reload if needed. Autos are great also but require a few extra steps.
But really it's whatever she feels comfortable with

I took my wife in and signed her up for a revolver safety course. With a woman instructor. After the course we went to a range and shot multiple different guns. I still think the 357 was a bit much so for practice I load it with 38s. I figure if she ever had to actualky shoot it she will never feel the recoil with the adrenalin dump in her system.
Why Glazer?
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Old 11-12-2014, 08:49 PM
 
18,113 posts, read 9,926,446 times
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I'm going to repeat my earlier recommendation to take her to a range where you can rent various handguns and let her get started with something she's comfortable shooting.

The first step is to let her get started with something she's comfortable shooting. If her first experiences are too unpleasant, she won't continue, she won't train, and it won't make any difference what gun is best (however you want to define "best").

Let her work up to the most effective cartridge she feels comfortable shooting. Even a .22 is better than pepper spray, but no gun is any good if she won't continue to train.

Let her work with the handgun with the manual of arms she feels most comfortable with. The manual of arms for an autoloader is significantly more complicated than that of a revolver. A lot of people are not gadget-oriented enough to want to deal with a more complicated manual of arms at the same time that they're initially learning just to be comfortable with recoil, gaining sight pictures, et cetera. But if she's given time to take it a bite at a time, the semi-auto may come later.

At some point, as she trains more, learns more, talks to more people, she may move up.
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Old 11-13-2014, 11:00 AM
 
896 posts, read 699,059 times
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My biggest concern with arming my wife or children?

It's not that they won't be able to defend themselves. I think we've covered that and they will do what is needed done at the appropriate time to protect themselves.

My fear is our court system. My fear is our laws. What could happen to my loved ones if they defend themselves but make a mistake that they were unaware of and are "victims" of our system and end up in jail.

I've started carrying just about every time I go out. Mostly because I can. It's my right. But partly for the peace of mine of being able to protect myself and others.

HOWEVER, I tend to be one that questions everything and am always running "what if" scenarios with just about everything in my life. It's how i am wired. So I spend quite a bit of time researching rules and regulations. I am constantly finding little things that I wasn't aware of that could cause a problem.


FOR EXAMPLE:

Last weekend I was out of town and looking to watch some football. I found a nice little casino with a myriad of TV's. PERFECT. I was carrying.

As I walked in, for some reason my brain stopped me. Are casino's legal to carry in? I quickly pulled out my phone and did a search and it appeared to me that it was illegal to have a fire arm on the premises or even in the car. I walked out to my car, took out the magazine and locked it away. I was still pi$$ed though as there are simply too many rules that can get us in trouble.

Rant/
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Old 11-13-2014, 01:07 PM
 
7,282 posts, read 8,417,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeGer View Post
Most shooting ranges have training programs and introduction to firearms is one of them. Go there before you make a purchase.
Exactly.

This question comes up every so often and it is like asking someone else what kind of shoes to buy, underwear to wear or food to eat.

If you are face to face then the guidance can be worth something because the person giving the advice can observe your stature, general physical attributes and other things that have significant relevance. Here, all you will get is "this works for me" and it is no better advice than telling you what medication to take for a described illness and in fact can be just as dangerous.

In the absence of actual knowledge of the person's experiences, knowledge, physical capabilities (including eyesight) and a demonstrated ability to even fire a gun, the advice is nearly worthless. That is why anyone asking what gun they should buy for self defense or anything else is best advised to seek training and experience, even if cursory, before buying a gun.

I would not even try to give advice if I don't know if the person asking can even pull the trigger of a revolver or cycle the action of a semi-auto. This is even more important if the person asking is doing so because they are going to buy a gun for someone else like a family member.
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Old 11-13-2014, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,492,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowa4430 View Post
My biggest concern with arming my wife or children?

It's not that they won't be able to defend themselves. I think we've covered that and they will do what is needed done at the appropriate time to protect themselves.

My fear is our court system. My fear is our laws. What could happen to my loved ones if they defend themselves but make a mistake that they were unaware of and are "victims" of our system and end up in jail.

I've started carrying just about every time I go out. Mostly because I can. It's my right. But partly for the peace of mine of being able to protect myself and others.

HOWEVER, I tend to be one that questions everything and am always running "what if" scenarios with just about everything in my life. It's how i am wired. So I spend quite a bit of time researching rules and regulations. I am constantly finding little things that I wasn't aware of that could cause a problem.


FOR EXAMPLE:

Last weekend I was out of town and looking to watch some football. I found a nice little casino with a myriad of TV's. PERFECT. I was carrying.

As I walked in, for some reason my brain stopped me. Are casino's legal to carry in? I quickly pulled out my phone and did a search and it appeared to me that it was illegal to have a fire arm on the premises or even in the car. I walked out to my car, took out the magazine and locked it away. I was still pi$$ed though as there are simply too many rules that can get us in trouble.

Rant/
Did you go through a ccw course? Did they not cover questions like that?

I am ex military and that exemps me from having to go through a ccw class. But, because of the different laws, I have attended ccw training in several states for the exact reason you point out. I also go to good training classes that allow good classroom time. I stay away from place an that advertise that they can do the classroom in half a day. The $75-$150 you pay for the class can eliminate a lot of court time and piece of mind is key. Know what you can and can't do, its well worth the money.
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