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Old 12-20-2014, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,327,031 times
Reputation: 7232

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
I think OP had one of those moments similar to when you're about to pull out into the street and take one last glance and that 18-wheeler blasts by and you think of what almost happened.
Yeah, you're right. I've had a couple of those kinda moments myself ( while driving, not while carrying ). I beat myself up over them just like OP is doing. It's a tramatic experience.
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Old 12-21-2014, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Islip Township
470 posts, read 712,867 times
Reputation: 442
What a bunch of BS. OP never drew his fireArm. He was in condition red.
OP if you feel you may have gone over board. Turn in your FireArm and Permit.
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Old 12-21-2014, 08:13 PM
 
163 posts, read 168,292 times
Reputation: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
You have to consider the "what if factor" what if that guy was set to do harm by robbing the place or blowing it up? If he was going to blow it up I don't think anything would have helped you. If he was there to rob it you would be better off to let him rob and run and let the Police track him down. In this day and age you do not want ot be a vigilante, you shoto the guy he sues you and you might go to jail even if his intent was to kill. if you kill him his family sues you.
If I was in a situation where a robbery was taking place I wouldn't pull my gun unless the situation escalated where people were being hurt.
Carrying a weapon that can take someones life including your own is something to take very seriously so you need to think carefully about how you will react.
I agree. If he would of stopped at the cash register and pulled a weapon asking for money I would of sat still in my place. If he then came towards me asking for money I would have given him my wallet.

He didn't stop at the cash register..he walked right through the door and then towards me. I over reacted and got an uneasy feeling about the way he was looking and moving towards me which prompted my actions.
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Old 12-21-2014, 08:16 PM
 
163 posts, read 168,292 times
Reputation: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by convextech View Post
This is exactly why I don't carry yet. I am not sure enough of my ability to truly see danger, of if I am just reacting to being scared.
I didn't start carrying until 3 years after I had my CCW permit. Same reasons as you.
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Old 12-21-2014, 08:21 PM
 
163 posts, read 168,292 times
Reputation: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
Nope. Neither DH nor I are in the least bit shaky around or conflicted about guns. Given that you even had to "make a detour" to ditch your gun, maybe you should turn in yours--along with your carry permit.
I made a detour because my mind wasn't at 100% after my over-reaction. I also leave it at home when I know I will be consuming alcohol or didn't get a good nights sleep.
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Old 12-22-2014, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,222 posts, read 7,000,574 times
Reputation: 6603
Although I live in a state that allows concealed and open carry I have not applied for a CCP; mainly because it is ridiculously expensive and open carry is LEGAL but not politically correct.

A firearm or knife should be the very LAST thing to consider in a self defense situation. We are surrounded by objects that can be used for self defense. For example the OP talked about being apprehensive about the behavior of the middle eastern gentleman that was approaching him. He had a concealed weapon and he reached for it. That is understandable. HOWEVER maybe there was a salt or pepper shaker on the cafe table. A subtle reach for a pepper shaker would be natural in a situation like this. Unscrew the top of the pepper shaker and if the situation does require action a spray of pepper in an assailants face will disable him almost immediately. This is not deadly force and you will not endanger any innocent bystanders. This will give you a few seconds to use non lethal methods to subdue an attacker. A squeeze bottle with Mustard may be another option. A dinner plate thrown like a Frisbee hurts like hell if it hits you in the face.

These are options when the attack is close by. However the only way to stop an armed thug that is more than ten feet away is with a bullet. If that is the situation a gun is the best FIRST option.

Many pooh pooh the idea of needing a weapon to protect their self or friends and family. However isn't it better to be prepared and have an option when the SHTF?

Gunluvver2
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Old 12-22-2014, 01:44 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,340 posts, read 10,921,891 times
Reputation: 12291
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwilliger View Post
I had a very interesting lunch today...

All the news about the school bombing overseas and the fellow who help up the cafe in Australia got my mind going more than it should have been.

I was at a small fast food restaurant and was sitting towards the back eating my lunch when a man of middle-eastern descent came in. He had the full head dress on and I didn't think much about it at first.

Then he started walking towards me with a very blank look on his face. He made eye contact with me and was walking straight towards me. I looked down at my table and then back up again and he gave me an awkward smile while maintaining eye contact.
"Why didn't he order food?"
"Why is he walking towards the back of the restaurant? The bathrooms are on the other side."
"Why is he holding a can of Sprite?"
"Why is this guy looking at me rather than everyone else he is walking by?"
"There is no running away from this, I'm pinned in a booth, the only way is through him"

I slowly reached back to my gun that was on my hip at the 4 ish position and grabbed the grip. I was telling/thinking to myself that I can't draw unless he get's in my space and poses a threat where I know my life is in danger.

And then he turned sideways and set his Sprite on a table next to mine and walked back towards the register. He was just reserving his table it turns out.

I looked around and no one seemed to notice that I was reaching for my gun. I never unholstered it. I've only practiced sitting down and unholstering my gun a couple thousand times in that position, it was so smooth and natural. I can't decide if I made a huge mistake even reaching for it or if it was at all justified. My life wasn't in immediate danger or any danger for that matter.

I took a detour and dropped by my apartment and put my gun in my storage lockbox. Don't know if I'm going to be carrying anytime soon.

It was a strange feeling accompanied by way too much adrenaline. I way over thought something and now I'm having a hard time accepting the fact that I might have an issue with middle-eastern people.

Anyone have any similar stories about thinking about drawing/reaching for your gun before any action is really going down?
No, I have never reached for a weapon without real danger close. By that, I mean hostile intention is declared and proven. Now, if I may ask, do you know "middle eastern" , as in Arab, from Hindu, Sikh etc? "Full headdress" cover a LOT. A bead wrap does not mean Muslim , just because. Leat alone Muslim terrorist.

Mater of fact, the latter would , more than likely, NOT be wearing religious garb. Honestly, I truly wish people would take the time to KNOW this enemy. That being Muslim jihadists. Good grief! It is good to be armed, and ready for anything, these days. But, if your preparing to fight, it pays to know who the "enemy" could be.
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Old 12-22-2014, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Southeast, where else?
3,914 posts, read 4,015,119 times
Reputation: 5781
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwilliger View Post
I had a very interesting lunch today...

All the news about the school bombing overseas and the fellow who help up the cafe in Australia got my mind going more than it should have been.

I was at a small fast food restaurant and was sitting towards the back eating my lunch when a man of middle-eastern descent came in. He had the full head dress on and I didn't think much about it at first.

Then he started walking towards me with a very blank look on his face. He made eye contact with me and was walking straight towards me. I looked down at my table and then back up again and he gave me an awkward smile while maintaining eye contact.
"Why didn't he order food?"
"Why is he walking towards the back of the restaurant? The bathrooms are on the other side."
"Why is he holding a can of Sprite?"
"Why is this guy looking at me rather than everyone else he is walking by?"
"There is no running away from this, I'm pinned in a booth, the only way is through him"

I slowly reached back to my gun that was on my hip at the 4 ish position and grabbed the grip. I was telling/thinking to myself that I can't draw unless he get's in my space and poses a threat where I know my life is in danger.

And then he turned sideways and set his Sprite on a table next to mine and walked back towards the register. He was just reserving his table it turns out.

I looked around and no one seemed to notice that I was reaching for my gun. I never unholstered it. I've only practiced sitting down and unholstering my gun a couple thousand times in that position, it was so smooth and natural. I can't decide if I made a huge mistake even reaching for it or if it was at all justified. My life wasn't in immediate danger or any danger for that matter.

I took a detour and dropped by my apartment and put my gun in my storage lockbox. Don't know if I'm going to be carrying anytime soon.

It was a strange feeling accompanied by way too much adrenaline. I way over thought something and now I'm having a hard time accepting the fact that I might have an issue with middle-eastern people.

Anyone have any similar stories about thinking about drawing/reaching for your gun before any action is really going down?

It's happened to me at least 6 times in the last 12 years. 3 times were on a bus, 2 times on a rail. The others when I was just parked in my car taking notes from sales calls. I always kept my cool. That, above all, is THE most important thing. If the folks weren't walking towards me, I never would have given it a thought.

Bus: 2 coming back to pan handle, 1 became aggressive when I said firmly and politely, "no". That ended quickly and no one got hurt...he just went on to bother someone else.
Train: Panhandling. Not aggressive, just direct. A bit unnerving when they are so committed...kind of like a daily job or something.
Parking Lot. Scary. The worst of all these was when I was in a parking lot, windows down (warm day) and was simply taking notes. I was there for maybe 5-10 minutes. Two guys were walking between cars. When they got within three rows, they split now walking down what would have been both sides of my car. I froze (BAD decision)....I was scared. No two ways about it. The guy on the right was walking straight and kept quickly looking down into each car. The other guy was walking straight, determined, eyes scanning.

Neither of them saw me until I started my car. The one on the left jittered a bit, the one on the right (passenger side to be) simply slid his hands into his shorts and kept walking like nothing going on. Both started talking to one another but, their pace was decidedly slower. I had already reached between my console and passenger seat, pulled the towel out of the way and had the pistol in my lap. Finger posted along the trigger guard.

When they got in FRONT of my car they made a 90 degree turn to my right and walked off.....I have to tell you that I was scared....sweating and breathing fast and it took a good 30-45 seconds to relax and let it go. I don't know why I froze but, I was fortunate enough to have enough time to recover and grab a pistol and be on the ready.

I could NOT back up and could only pull out which I probably should have done. It just caught me off guard. My peripheral vision caught their movement (that and their loud clothing). When they turned they just walked away.

In retrospect, my guess is that they were looking for smash n' grab opportunities if anything at all. I think the engine startled them slightly to where they thought just to leave. I'm' still glad I carry a pistol in the car. Sometimes I take the small .380 when I go on the appointments just to have something. I have to work in a less than safe area sometimes soooooooo......well, better to have and not need than to need and not have and all that....

Have to tell you though, that was a scary encounter that amounted to nothing. Maybe I read too much into it but, when they split and started coming down the rows perpendicular to the p'king lot layout and were coming my way I froze for a moment. Weird. Recovered quick though.

You had a similar experience. Nothing happened. You violated no one and broke no laws. Most importantly you remained calm. It's okay to be alert. It's okay to be prepared. Just be very careful what you wish for and pray you have the IQ to do the right thing when nothing is happening.

I only regret that slight freeze I had. Had they been closer I never would have been able to defend myself and that is squarely my fault. Always be alert. Don't be paranoid. 99.999999999999% of the folks out there are just like you and I getting through their day. It's that 0.0000000000000001 % a-hole that f's it up for everyone. I don't regret having a CCW and am quite grateful for the privilege.

I just need to brush up on my situational awareness and practice controlled breathing. Analyze the situation and look, and take advantage of, any outs available up to and including, running.
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Old 12-23-2014, 12:57 AM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,327,031 times
Reputation: 7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
It's happened to me at least 6 times in the last 12 years. 3 times were on a bus, 2 times on a rail. The others when I was just parked in my car taking notes from sales calls. I always kept my cool. That, above all, is THE most important thing. If the folks weren't walking towards me, I never would have given it a thought.

Bus: 2 coming back to pan handle, 1 became aggressive when I said firmly and politely, "no". That ended quickly and no one got hurt...he just went on to bother someone else.
Train: Panhandling. Not aggressive, just direct. A bit unnerving when they are so committed...kind of like a daily job or something.
Parking Lot. Scary. The worst of all these was when I was in a parking lot, windows down (warm day) and was simply taking notes. I was there for maybe 5-10 minutes. Two guys were walking between cars. When they got within three rows, they split now walking down what would have been both sides of my car. I froze (BAD decision)....I was scared. No two ways about it. The guy on the right was walking straight and kept quickly looking down into each car. The other guy was walking straight, determined, eyes scanning.

Neither of them saw me until I started my car. The one on the left jittered a bit, the one on the right (passenger side to be) simply slid his hands into his shorts and kept walking like nothing going on. Both started talking to one another but, their pace was decidedly slower. I had already reached between my console and passenger seat, pulled the towel out of the way and had the pistol in my lap. Finger posted along the trigger guard.

When they got in FRONT of my car they made a 90 degree turn to my right and walked off.....I have to tell you that I was scared....sweating and breathing fast and it took a good 30-45 seconds to relax and let it go. I don't know why I froze but, I was fortunate enough to have enough time to recover and grab a pistol and be on the ready.

I could NOT back up and could only pull out which I probably should have done. It just caught me off guard. My peripheral vision caught their movement (that and their loud clothing). When they turned they just walked away.

In retrospect, my guess is that they were looking for smash n' grab opportunities if anything at all. I think the engine startled them slightly to where they thought just to leave. I'm' still glad I carry a pistol in the car. Sometimes I take the small .380 when I go on the appointments just to have something. I have to work in a less than safe area sometimes soooooooo......well, better to have and not need than to need and not have and all that....

Have to tell you though, that was a scary encounter that amounted to nothing. Maybe I read too much into it but, when they split and started coming down the rows perpendicular to the p'king lot layout and were coming my way I froze for a moment. Weird. Recovered quick though.

You had a similar experience. Nothing happened. You violated no one and broke no laws. Most importantly you remained calm. It's okay to be alert. It's okay to be prepared. Just be very careful what you wish for and pray you have the IQ to do the right thing when nothing is happening.

I only regret that slight freeze I had. Had they been closer I never would have been able to defend myself and that is squarely my fault. Always be alert. Don't be paranoid. 99.999999999999% of the folks out there are just like you and I getting through their day. It's that 0.0000000000000001 % a-hole that f's it up for everyone. I don't regret having a CCW and am quite grateful for the privilege.

I just need to brush up on my situational awareness and practice controlled breathing. Analyze the situation and look, and take advantage of, any outs available up to and including, running.

Interesting story, thanks for sharing. Though, some might argue that to carry a gun is not a privilege, rather, it's a Constitutional Right.
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Old 12-23-2014, 07:47 AM
 
Location: WI
3,806 posts, read 8,522,746 times
Reputation: 2220
Yes this has been an interesting thread. I've taken my ccw class and will get my permit shortly. But just because i'll have a card in my wallet saying i can carry doesnt mean i'm ready. One point that was gone over in depth in the class I took (and I appreciated that it was a focal point) was all reasoning to consider on why [i]not[i] to carry. For me, I view the permit/class as just the first step.

As i'm one of a more 'mature' age lol and newer to the shooting hobby, I dont have years of training and experience that others may have. The type of training where not only one is fully aware of their surroundings but has the ability (muscle memory perhaps) to physically handle the situation with their firearm correctly.
I may be a good shot at the range, and would use my firearm in my home if ever needed to protect us, but i am nowhere near the confident level I should be at to grab my holster and carry in public. Regardless of what my rights may be, I also believe i should be responsible as well. One wrong decision, one split second delay, could drastically affect my life and others.

All just my .02 of course; some may carry with little to no add'l training and be good while others perhaps should never carry regardless of taking a class. For me, when i'm ready i'm ready, and until that point it's more practice and training.
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