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Old 12-16-2014, 07:16 PM
 
163 posts, read 167,574 times
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I had a very interesting lunch today...

All the news about the school bombing overseas and the fellow who help up the cafe in Australia got my mind going more than it should have been.

I was at a small fast food restaurant and was sitting towards the back eating my lunch when a man of middle-eastern descent came in. He had the full head dress on and I didn't think much about it at first.

Then he started walking towards me with a very blank look on his face. He made eye contact with me and was walking straight towards me. I looked down at my table and then back up again and he gave me an awkward smile while maintaining eye contact.
"Why didn't he order food?"
"Why is he walking towards the back of the restaurant? The bathrooms are on the other side."
"Why is he holding a can of Sprite?"
"Why is this guy looking at me rather than everyone else he is walking by?"
"There is no running away from this, I'm pinned in a booth, the only way is through him"

I slowly reached back to my gun that was on my hip at the 4 ish position and grabbed the grip. I was telling/thinking to myself that I can't draw unless he get's in my space and poses a threat where I know my life is in danger.

And then he turned sideways and set his Sprite on a table next to mine and walked back towards the register. He was just reserving his table it turns out.

I looked around and no one seemed to notice that I was reaching for my gun. I never unholstered it. I've only practiced sitting down and unholstering my gun a couple thousand times in that position, it was so smooth and natural. I can't decide if I made a huge mistake even reaching for it or if it was at all justified. My life wasn't in immediate danger or any danger for that matter.

I took a detour and dropped by my apartment and put my gun in my storage lockbox. Don't know if I'm going to be carrying anytime soon.

It was a strange feeling accompanied by way too much adrenaline. I way over thought something and now I'm having a hard time accepting the fact that I might have an issue with middle-eastern people.

Anyone have any similar stories about thinking about drawing/reaching for your gun before any action is really going down?
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Old 12-16-2014, 07:29 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwilliger View Post
I had a very interesting lunch today...

All the news about the school bombing overseas and the fellow who help up the cafe in Australia got my mind going more than it should have been.

I was at a small fast food restaurant and was sitting towards the back eating my lunch when a man of middle-eastern descent came in. He had the full head dress on and I didn't think much about it at first.

Then he started walking towards me with a very blank look on his face. He made eye contact with me and was walking straight towards me. I looked down at my table and then back up again and he gave me an awkward smile while maintaining eye contact.
"Why didn't he order food?"
"Why is he walking towards the back of the restaurant? The bathrooms are on the other side."
"Why is he holding a can of Sprite?"
"Why is this guy looking at me rather than everyone else he is walking by?"
"There is no running away from this, I'm pinned in a booth, the only way is through him"

I slowly reached back to my gun that was on my hip at the 4 ish position and grabbed the grip. I was telling/thinking to myself that I can't draw unless he get's in my space and poses a threat where I know my life is in danger.

And then he turned sideways and set his Sprite on a table next to mine and walked back towards the register. He was just reserving his table it turns out.

I looked around and no one seemed to notice that I was reaching for my gun. I never unholstered it. I've only practiced sitting down and unholstering my gun a couple thousand times in that position, it was so smooth and natural. I can't decide if I made a huge mistake even reaching for it or if it was at all justified. My life wasn't in immediate danger or any danger for that matter.

I took a detour and dropped by my apartment and put my gun in my storage lockbox. Don't know if I'm going to be carrying anytime soon.

It was a strange feeling accompanied by way too much adrenaline. I way over thought something and now I'm having a hard time accepting the fact that I might have an issue with middle-eastern people.

Anyone have any similar stories about thinking about drawing/reaching for your gun before any action is really going down?
Crazy to read this! I had just walked into burgerking and was going to set the drink I'd brought from the office down on the table and head to order my food when some guy starts staring daggers at me. He looked jittery and made me nervous the way he watched me from all the way across the joint. Didn't even blink. He started fumbling around for something or other while staring at me, and I offered him a smile to see if that would diffuse a very awkwardly evolving situation. Guy was seriously making me uncomfortable like he had a gun or a knife or something in his pocket. I debated leaving and calling the police then and there. I know there have been a few robberies involving fast food joints in the area and this guy was setting off warning bells for me. Anyway, he kindof grimmaced back at my smile and stopped digging around for whatever. Maybe he's got a rash or something and was just scratching. Wierd!


^^^


Think of it from HIS vantage point.

I think you need to back off the trigger.

You also need to be able to use less than lethal methods. Escalation of force is important. For instance, what if Zimmerman had been more physically capable, and instead of shooting Trayvon Martin, he had quickly dominated the physical encounter? I am not saying that lethal force has no place, or that Zimmerman was/was not justified, I am simply asking...what if Zimmerman had been in better shape, and better trained, and handled the situation that evolved by physically dominating Martin? Do you think Zimmerman's life might be a more enjoyable experience right now?

Consider that. Carrying a weapon gives you an OPTION. Not a mandatory decision. You need to carefully gauge what is REQUIRED to go home in one piece. Pulling a weapon takes things to another level, every. Single. Time. Be sure you want to do that. Be sure you NEED to do that.
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Old 12-16-2014, 07:52 PM
 
Location: alabama.
2,322 posts, read 1,598,184 times
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great reply .. best of the year ..
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:00 PM
 
7,282 posts, read 8,380,090 times
Reputation: 11407
OP, what happened to you is quite common. No need to start mind screwing yourself over it. You experienced something called contextual awareness. You have been immersed in the news of the day, the news of the week, the month, the year and decade.

Along comes someone who triggers context and you get hyper vigilant to the point that you start going through the what if scenarios.

The key is understanding what happened and why and then using it as a way to stay safe rather than over react, alert rather than panicked, cautious rather than impulsive.

You were too busy calculating your ability to deal with a possible situation and that means you might not be confident as to your skills. Include in those skills, the critical thinking needed to identify a real threat from a routine situation that works on the information that sits around in your brain all day.

The guy could have just as easily set down his Sprite and then pulled out a firearm and got you. There are few people who in a public place, seated as you are, who could defend against someone intent on taking you out, specifically. In the civilian role, you simply can't draw your firearm every time someone appear to be suspicious or matches some news story.
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Idaho
836 posts, read 1,308,186 times
Reputation: 1547
What just happened in that Sydney coffee shop could happen here any day.

Makes complete sense to carry and keep your eyes open.
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:20 PM
 
7,282 posts, read 8,380,090 times
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One more thing, I often see concealed carry folks (I can pick them out pretty easily and they often prove my observations correct) sitting toward the back of eateries and such. The thing is that they are boxing themselves in. They have no place to go, basically it would be a stand and fight rather than move and live situation.

When you are seated like that, you can sometimes look around and realize just what you did when you sat down. Thinking that your back was against a wall (good) you also put yourself into a tunnel and the only way out is through whatever might be coming your way (bad).

When people realize they are vulnerable, they react quite differently that they otherwise might.

This is also why you never sit in a corner. You might think you have two sides that you don't have much to worry about but what you've really done is put yourself into a corner where focusing on you is easy.

You can test this yourself the next time you go to the range. Go through some draw fire drills and see the results.

Then, put a target (any kind) into a corner made of cardboard boxes or anything like that. Now run through some draw, acquire fire drills. You might be amazed at how much faster and accurate you are with less effort in the later drill than the first one.

If you want to sit near the back, better make sure there is a door there that you can get through too. Otherwise you are far better off seated elsewhere.
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:21 PM
 
163 posts, read 167,574 times
Reputation: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Crazy to read this! I had just walked into burgerking and was going to set the drink I'd brought from the office down on the table and head to order my food when some guy starts staring daggers at me. He looked jittery and made me nervous the way he watched me from all the way across the joint. Didn't even blink. He started fumbling around for something or other while staring at me, and I offered him a smile to see if that would diffuse a very awkwardly evolving situation. Guy was seriously making me uncomfortable like he had a gun or a knife or something in his pocket. I debated leaving and calling the police then and there. I know there have been a few robberies involving fast food joints in the area and this guy was setting off warning bells for me. Anyway, he kindof grimmaced back at my smile and stopped digging around for whatever. Maybe he's got a rash or something and was just scratching. Wierd!


^^^


Think of it from HIS vantage point.

I think you need to back off the trigger.

You also need to be able to use less than lethal methods. Escalation of force is important. For instance, what if Zimmerman had been more physically capable, and instead of shooting Trayvon Martin, he had quickly dominated the physical encounter? I am not saying that lethal force has no place, or that Zimmerman was/was not justified, I am simply asking...what if Zimmerman had been in better shape, and better trained, and handled the situation that evolved by physically dominating Martin? Do you think Zimmerman's life might be a more enjoyable experience right now?

Consider that. Carrying a weapon gives you an OPTION. Not a mandatory decision. You need to carefully gauge what is REQUIRED to go home in one piece. Pulling a weapon takes things to another level, every. Single. Time. Be sure you want to do that. Be sure you NEED to do that.

I have looked at it through his eyes, trust me. That's why I went home and locked it up. I went through it a couple hundred more times in my head..Why didn't I plant my feet and get ready to move? Why did I even suspect that something was going to go down.

Good response!
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:31 PM
 
163 posts, read 167,574 times
Reputation: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by notoriouskelly View Post
What just happened in that Sydney coffee shop could happen here any day.

Makes complete sense to carry and keep your eyes open.

That's where my head was at.

I don't know if it is bad form but 80% of the time I am carrying I don't even think about or notice the gun on my hip. I sure as hell wasn't thinking about it until I found it's grip.

I can run a lot better than I can shoot so that's my first reaction when things are going against me.

Maybe it's worth noting that this whole head scenario went down in under 4 seconds.
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:42 PM
 
163 posts, read 167,574 times
Reputation: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
OP, what happened to you is quite common. No need to start mind screwing yourself over it. You experienced something called contextual awareness. You have been immersed in the news of the day, the news of the week, the month, the year and decade.

Along comes someone who triggers context and you get hyper vigilant to the point that you start going through the what if scenarios.

The key is understanding what happened and why and then using it as a way to stay safe rather than over react, alert rather than panicked, cautious rather than impulsive.

You were too busy calculating your ability to deal with a possible situation and that means you might not be confident as to your skills. Include in those skills, the critical thinking needed to identify a real threat from a routine situation that works on the information that sits around in your brain all day.

The guy could have just as easily set down his Sprite and then pulled out a firearm and got you. There are few people who in a public place, seated as you are, who could defend against someone intent on taking you out, specifically. In the civilian role, you simply can't draw your firearm every time someone appear to be suspicious or matches some news story.
I will work on that. This was more of a "wake up call" than anything. I'm trying to pin point why I responded the way I did. Every one of my self-defense instructors would be having a good laugh at me if I told them this story. "Why wouldn't you have threw your drink in his eyes and run?!"

I've never once felt the need to go for or reach for my gun and never had up until this day. There were and are other options in 100% of the scenarios I have been through in my life. Anytime I sense a bad situation I get out or run. I like to remove myself from the equation rather than be the variant in it.
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:00 PM
 
7,282 posts, read 8,380,090 times
Reputation: 11407
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwilliger View Post
I will work on that. This was more of a "wake up call" than anything. I'm trying to pin point why I responded the way I did. Every one of my self-defense instructors would be having a good laugh at me if I told them this story. "Why wouldn't you have threw your drink in his eyes and run?!"

I've never once felt the need to go for or reach for my gun and never had up until this day. There were and are other options in 100% of the scenarios I have been through in my life. Anytime I sense a bad situation I get out or run. I like to remove myself from the equation rather than be the variant in it.
Actually, you were on track so don't drum down on yourself at all.

The fact is, and don't overlook or diminish it, is that you did not draw. That right there says that something kicked in and today you are here instead of there where "there" is some lockup.

Don't forget too, that the reaction if very different when you think you are the target vs someone else being the target and you just happen to be in proximity. The thoughts that went through your mind in those few seconds are the same that keep you safe.

Everything worked out right? You didn't draw or even give away your carry unless someone was real attentive. For all anyone else knew, you were reaching to scratch your ass right?

One of the best ways to deal with this type of situation it is remove all emotion from the situation.

You aren't the first one to go through this and won't be the last. Learn from it and drive on. You're already on the way to gaining the skills and knowledge to float through this kind of stuff.

Stay safe.
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