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Old 12-31-2014, 06:24 AM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
5,937 posts, read 8,500,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
Perhaps the first step in debunking Hollywood style myths about silencers should be to, well..... quit calling them "silencers"
AMEN!!! Thing is, you say suppressor, and half the folks jump all over you for NOT saying "silencer", or have no clue what you're talking about. It's really pretty annoying, but I usually try to take the time to explain to 'em that this ain't Hollywood an' I ain't Clark Gable.

We're taking a decibel meter along with us on a suppressed shoot this spring, and will be looking to see just what the noise reduction is across several calibers with different suppressors. With the expansion of hunting with them, more of the guys on my forum are getting interested in them, so I want to have some real-world results for them to evaluate. All the testing will be with dry suppressors, just to give them real-world, worst case scenario's.
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Old 12-31-2014, 09:47 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRedneck View Post
AMEN!!! Thing is, you say suppressor, and half the folks jump all over you for NOT saying "silencer", or have no clue what you're talking about. It's really pretty annoying, but I usually try to take the time to explain to 'em that this ain't Hollywood an' I ain't Clark Gable.

We're taking a decibel meter along with us on a suppressed shoot this spring, and will be looking to see just what the noise reduction is across several calibers with different suppressors. With the expansion of hunting with them, more of the guys on my forum are getting interested in them, so I want to have some real-world results for them to evaluate. All the testing will be with dry suppressors, just to give them real-world, worst case scenario's.
What meter are you using? That implies some serious money on your part, as even the cheap setups are $10K and require a good bit of effort to ensure calibration, from what I understand. If you're breaking out that kind of gear, please video it, and please offer to others in your state/area a chance to come out and have their cans metered. You could really make a lot of people happy with that kind of quality "info-dump" on the web!
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Old 12-31-2014, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,315,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
What meter are you using? That implies some serious money on your part, as even the cheap setups are $10K and require a good bit of effort to ensure calibration, from what I understand. If you're breaking out that kind of gear, please video it, and please offer to others in your state/area a chance to come out and have their cans metered. You could really make a lot of people happy with that kind of quality "info-dump" on the web!
Seriously?

I can remember once when I was working in a plastics factory and we had to wear ear plugs because of all the noise. We all hated to have to wear them, and they didn't do anything to protect our hearing anyway, because it was a fast paced environment and they never stayed in our ears....

So after enough complaining, and after enough people got infractions for not wearing them, management finally brought a few guys in who walked around with handheld meters all day to measure the noise.....

Anyway, the meters didn't look all that high tech.
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Old 01-01-2015, 01:34 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,420,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
Seriously?

I can remember once when I was working in a plastics factory and we had to wear ear plugs because of all the noise. We all hated to have to wear them, and they didn't do anything to protect our hearing anyway, because it was a fast paced environment and they never stayed in our ears....

So after enough complaining, and after enough people got infractions for not wearing them, management finally brought a few guys in who walked around with handheld meters all day to measure the noise.....

Anyway, the meters didn't look all that high tech.
They're not. As an ex-USNavy Sonar Tech, whose job was to measure sound profiles, you could buy a full range spectrum analyzer for around $1700 and it would measure way more than what was needed. The range you want to measure, in frequency, is the cost part. The frequency range you need to measure is in the cheap range, not the costly range.
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Last edited by ElkHunter; 01-01-2015 at 09:20 PM..
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:10 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
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To properly measure sounds that occur as quickly as a gunshot, you need quality kit. A cheap handheld or whatever will pick up continuous noise levels, but a gunshot isn't that animal. So I'll be curious how your readings compared to industry standards for your suppressor.

This is a "cheap" setup...
http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nk...nd+Level+Meter
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bruel-Kjaer-...-/181355078654

Then you need the support gear (computer analysis, calibration setup, etc.) to make it work, as well as an understanding of how to use it all.

It's so old you can't even buy them new, anymore, so I linked you to used prices. It seems to have come down, now. You might can get it all together for $5K or so.

Surefire currently uses a $40K setup, last I spoke with their suppressor division to test/meter their cans.

This stuff isn't cheap, and the junk you see on RedJacket type shows typically isn't anything worth getting readings from.

You need equipment capable of measuring sounds occurring over the single-digit microsecond timespan. Otherwise you won't get the true sound-level spike, as it were, that is being created. Your equipment just won't respond quick enough to interpret it.

If this stuff were cheap, every swinging dick "silencer company" would have a setup. As it is, it's difficult to find quality gear to measure this stuff, hence why I said send out an invite. You will draw people from all over the state if you're metering stuff properly.

Last edited by JWG223; 01-01-2015 at 02:57 AM..
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Old 01-01-2015, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,420,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
To properly measure sounds that occur as quickly as a gunshot, you need quality kit. A cheap handheld or whatever will pick up continuous noise levels, but a gunshot isn't that animal. So I'll be curious how your readings compared to industry standards for your suppressor.

This is a "cheap" setup...
Bruel Kjaer 2209 Precision Sound Level Meter | eBay
Bruel Kjaer Preamplifier 2669C Microphone 4190 | eBay

Then you need the support gear (computer analysis, calibration setup, etc.) to make it work, as well as an understanding of how to use it all.

It's so old you can't even buy them new, anymore, so I linked you to used prices. It seems to have come down, now. You might can get it all together for $5K or so.

Surefire currently uses a $40K setup, last I spoke with their suppressor division to test/meter their cans.

This stuff isn't cheap, and the junk you see on RedJacket type shows typically isn't anything worth getting readings from.

You need equipment capable of measuring sounds occurring over the single-digit microsecond timespan. Otherwise you won't get the true sound-level spike, as it were, that is being created. Your equipment just won't respond quick enough to interpret it.

If this stuff were cheap, every swinging dick "silencer company" would have a setup. As it is, it's difficult to find quality gear to measure this stuff, hence why I said send out an invite. You will draw people from all over the state if you're metering stuff properly.
You are absolutely correct. The frequency range and he decibels are easily measured with gear that is not that costly. Trapping it is the problem, but I disagree on the cost you quoted. Although I haven't played with the 'gear' in a few years, when I left the industry in 2005, you could get a spectrum analyzer. for $1700-1800 and get all needed accessories to trap it, for about the same money, making it about $3400. Since then, sound equipment has gotten better, and cheaper.
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Old 01-01-2015, 10:32 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
You are absolutely correct. The frequency range and he decibels are easily measured with gear that is not that costly. Trapping it is the problem, but I disagree on the cost you quoted. Although I haven't played with the 'gear' in a few years, when I left the industry in 2005, you could get a spectrum analyzer. for $1700-1800 and get all needed accessories to trap it, for about the same money, making it about $3400. Since then, sound equipment has gotten better, and cheaper.
I have not really put serious effort into buying my own, so I'm not going to swear to the prices except for the surefire stuff. I deal with Garin at surefire and remember him telling me the price and a long list of numbers denoting the model of that stoopid expensive beast. Of course, their purpose is a bit more industrialized than that of a guy in a field with his rifle and a healthy dose of curiosity and some spare cash., I just know it's nowhere near what a layman has sitting around in his garage, due to the extremely short pulse type sound profiles involved.
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Old 01-02-2015, 05:36 AM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
5,937 posts, read 8,500,331 times
Reputation: 5751
Hmmmm...obviously a LOT more to this than I'd been led to believe. Gonna have to do some more research on this to see what can be done. While I'd love to put a decent rig together, for $3-4K, I could add to the collection!
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:12 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRedneck View Post
Hmmmm...obviously a LOT more to this than I'd been led to believe. Gonna have to do some more research on this to see what can be done. While I'd love to put a decent rig together, for $3-4K, I could add to the collection!
Honestly, man, I have not found muzzle dB to matter a hill of beans to me. I'd rather shoot my SOCOM 556 MINI than my legacy 556-212 can.

On my 16" carbine, the fullsize -212 can meters around 135dB or so (give/take). The Mini, around 137-138 according to some, low 140's according to others. Depends on the test.

At the ears? They are similar.

Like I said before, backpressure plays a massive role.

I really think it's pointless to nitpick over 1m to the left 90* muzzle dB numbers. It's just so pointless when there are such bigger and more meaningful differences to compare between suppressors, and they all sound similar at the ear, backpressure dependent.


*My experience is on the M4/MK18 type platforms, bolt guns are more "muzzle number" meaningful as there is no ejection port pop.

Here is arguably the "quietest" suppressor for the 5.56 platform, the AAC SPR/M4:

Here is AAC's "mini" can, the Mini4:



Muzzle numbers are so awesome...but you've got two suppressors, and one is quieter at the SHOOTER'S EAR than the other...and the one that's easiest on the shooter's ears weighs almost 5oz less, and is over 3" shorter, and doesn't cause the action of the weapon to cycle nearly as fast. It's the one I would pick...and it's the one that all the decibel chasing whores would laugh at...until they actually shot it, and then the butthurt would flow freely.

Last edited by JWG223; 01-02-2015 at 07:22 AM..
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:54 AM
 
Location: the real CA.
87 posts, read 69,594 times
Reputation: 63
i see no reason to not use a muffler on a rifle.
and a number of reason to use them.

but our government is scared people will like them and buy more and lots more that the feds do not know about.


.
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