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Old 01-26-2015, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Duluth, MN
515 posts, read 929,148 times
Reputation: 838

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Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
I get that any shooter can make mistakes on any platform. My observation is AR shooters tend to be new shooters and therefore bring an unusually high concentration of rookie mistakes, carelessness, and generally low quality of range etiquette. Far more so than other platforms.
I think part of the problem might stem from a new shooter jumping straight to an AR, where mistakes can easily be made compared to other, simpler weapons. It seems that gun shops used to try and steer new folks towards something more forgiving, like a bolt action rifle or a revolver. Maybe they still try to do that, but it seems to me that everyone wants something "sexy" these days.
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Old 01-26-2015, 03:04 PM
Status: "Rocktober...well that was fast. :-(" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,285 posts, read 10,446,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenaroundabit View Post
I think part of the problem might stem from a new shooter jumping straight to an AR, where mistakes can easily be made compared to other, simpler weapons. It seems that gun shops used to try and steer new folks towards something more forgiving, like a bolt action rifle or a revolver. Maybe they still try to do that, but it seems to me that everyone wants something "sexy" these days.
I definitely think there is a lot of this at play. I've met a lot of AR shooters who have a "wanna-be" military thing going on. They like the AR platform because it's "tacticool" but never had the moxie to actually serve in the military. Now you don't need to serve in the military to become an AR wizard. I know a guy who pretty much knows all there is to know about most common AR brands and he hasn't served a day in the military. The key is he is also and older (early 50s) experienced shooter, collector, and gun smith. Maturity matters. I recommend new shooters either latch onto a more experienced shooter who can coach them up, or select a more simple weapon on which to get started. With that said, the AR is a simple weapon to learn. Perhaps not as user-friendly as a revolver or bolt action, but still pretty darn easy.
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Rathdrum, ID
4,114 posts, read 3,860,715 times
Reputation: 7813
I keep telling myself that I should get an AR, but just can't quite figure out what all the hype is about. Tell myself that I "need" one for when the bottom drops out. I don't know. Maybe I'm just having too much fun with my 22s. Thanks to an inheritance from my dad, I have enough 22 rounds to shoot several boxes a week until the cow come home.

- - -

On range etiquette:

I did get a scolding the other week. I was standing at the table plinking away with my Mark II when a fellow pulls up to the table next to me. I notice that he has one of those Smith and Wesson 500 revolvers with a small box of ammunition. "That thing's huge!", I think to myself, "Looks nice. Stainless always looks nice".

At the first thunderous BOOM, I just about jumped out of my pants and quickly stepped away from the line with my wee itty-bitty pistol. The range safety officer chastised me for not putting my gun down before stepping away.

Thankfully, his 500 has a five-shot capacity so every time he got ready to shoot, I stepped outside the range and covered my ear muffs with my hands. Some help that was. The ground shook every time he fired off a shot. Ammunition for that thing must be awfully expensive because he just shot that one box of 25 before he left.
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,109 posts, read 857,097 times
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They're like $3 apiece.
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Old 01-27-2015, 02:36 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
8,853 posts, read 4,823,610 times
Reputation: 7680
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
........It is bad enough at my club that I am going to start campaigning for a "semi-auto restricted" rifle range where ARs are not allowed............
Your range probably won't go for it. They are there to make money, right? By saying no ARs, they are depriving themselves of a very large part of the market. IMHO.

Further, be carefully about painting with such a big brush. Is this not an AR, too?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...7/AR7rifle.jpg

I often drive up to my range and find it is on a waiting list because of so many people there. I may have to wait an hour or two to get a lane. It really doesn't bug me. Why?

Because my range is having business, they are making money, and this increases the odds that they will stay in business and be there for me.

As far as people at the range, they vary. There have been cops, hunters, collectors, amateurs, newbies, others......I think the ex Gov has even shot there. I'd like to think that when I'm shooting that people are looking through the windows watching me, that I'm a good source of unpaid advertising for the range, me out there with my USP or AR-10, slow combat shooting against a silhouette......but maybe I'm just dreaming.

I am curious about if your rant applies to the AR-10. The WHOMP, Better than Sex! of that rifle sending a round down range seems rather extreme for any new comer, no matter what fantasy they may have about it. Mine is an A2 (I think, been quite a while since it's been out of the vault) carbine and even that is a huge rifle. Compared to the -15, it makes the latter look like a toy. So unless things have changed in the .75 score since I got mine, I can't see, that much, a beginner going after that monster of a gun.

Some people are rather unsafe. Hopefully, they will learn in non bloody ways, one way or another. When we hear them down a few lanes, such as Dad screaming at the kid and immediately leaving, we wonder what they did. When we see it directly, such as another child looking at me from the next lane over from around the front, it scares the heck out of us and we are immediately seeking out the range officer.

Should it happen? Of course not but that it does happen here and there is part of the world we are in. Correct along the way.

Finally, what do we think as we look at other shooters? Of the girl in her pink shorts, posing Miami Vice style with the pistol for her girl friend to snap the picture? Of the man there shooting an M-1? Of me, with my "plain" -15, -10, or Uzi, only shooting silhouettes? Newbie, ex Marine, honorable hit lady?

Well, whatever we think, our thoughts should not be the basis that decide how others should live.
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:22 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
Reputation: 2654
Many ranges already have stupid "1 shot per second" rules, which is why I won't frequent them. I shoot to train. Not to waste lead or make noise. I can only gain so much shooting so slowly. Not that shooting slowly is bad, or fundamentals aren't important, but one trains functionally to make multiple rapid hits, and 1 shot per second ain't it unless we are talking a single shot from the holster in under 1 second.
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Old 01-27-2015, 05:16 AM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,310,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeGer View Post
I agree 100%. It should be mandatory. At least they'll be aware of the deadly consequences of mishandling a weapon.
.
Perhaps you also believe a testing / permitting process might be a good idea before you can exercise your freedom of speech rights as well? Or practice a religion. How about a test before you can vote? ( on second thought, that's not a bad idea.... )

Putting road-blocks and barriers in front of a citizens ability to exercise a Right only gives the government more leeway to arbitrarily deny that Right. It's never a good idea. Never.
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Old 01-27-2015, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,310,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volosong View Post
. Ammunition for that thing must be awfully expensive because he just shot that one box of 25 before he left.
That one box of 25 was quite the extravagance.

I've seen them go for as high as $100 per 20. That's $5 a piece for the not so mathematically inclined among us...
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:17 AM
Status: "Rocktober...well that was fast. :-(" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,285 posts, read 10,446,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
Your range probably won't go for it. They are there to make money, right? By saying no ARs, they are depriving themselves of a very large part of the market. IMHO.
Actually, no. My range club is actually a non-profit conservation club. Club members pay an annual fee. Shooters pay a range fee on top of the annual fee. There would be two major hurdles to clear before installing another bench. First: money. If I had the money to donate to the club and fund it myself, chances are I'd also have the money to buy a small plot of land and build my own. The second and actually larger hurdle is the space: I'm not sure how the club would react to clearing woodland in favor of additional bench and target points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
Further, be carefully about painting with such a big brush. Is this not an AR, too?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...7/AR7rifle.jpg
Not sure your point. I am sharing some observations I've made about many who shoot the AR platform at my range facility. These observations actually extend to gun counters where ARs are sold. You can spot "wanna-be" military, new shooters, etc by the way they handle weapons and by the questions they ask. It's not necessarily painting with a broad brush because the AR platform seems to have created a niche in the shooting community and that niche draws a lot of new and inexperienced shooters. I'm not following your point with your comment and link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
Finally, what do we think as we look at other shooters? Of the girl in her pink shorts, posing Miami Vice style with the pistol for her girl friend to snap the picture? Of the man there shooting an M-1? Of me, with my "plain" -15, -10, or Uzi, only shooting silhouettes? Newbie, ex Marine, honorable hit lady?

Well, whatever we think, our thoughts should not be the basis that decide how others should live.
I don't think anything when I look at other shooters. In warmer months I am a cargo shorts and t-shirt/sandals wearing kind of guy, even at the range. Suffice to say it is uncommon to see people at the range dressed the way I usually dress. Hence I don't make any judgments based on the way others are dressed, and I certainly don't believe it should be the basis for how they should live. However, once certain behavioral traits begin to exhibit it is reasonable to begin reaching conclusions. If the trend I've seen exhibited equally across all types of platforms I would probably not think anything of it. It does seem to be in greater concentration within the AR platform.

Finally let me reiterate this: I'm all about new shooters and new gun owners. This influx of new blood does not come without its frustrations, though. I believe the shooting community is experiencing some growing pains, but ultimately I think we are better off with more responsible gun owners/shooters out there.
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,773 posts, read 3,676,401 times
Reputation: 4236
Quote:
Originally Posted by volosong View Post
I keep telling myself that I should get an AR, but just can't quite figure out what all the hype is about. Tell myself that I "need" one for when the bottom drops out. I don't know. Maybe I'm just having too much fun with my 22s. Thanks to an inheritance from my dad, I have enough 22 rounds to shoot several boxes a week until the cow come home.
The only reasons to get an AR-platform is if 1) you think a SHTF scenario is likely; 2) you really enjoy shooting lots of cheap bullets but a .22LR doesn't cut it for you; or 3) you just want one.

If you live in a rural area (1) is unlikely; but it becomes more like the closer you get to an urban area. Think LA or Ferguson Riots, Katrina, Sandy, etc.

You've already stated that (2) does not apply to you; same with me. If I feel the need for a little more bang in a rapid-fire shoulder-fired weapon with inexpensive bullets I'll probably move to something like a 9mm carbine before an AR-15.

But (3)? If you want one and can afford it, then get it. No need for hype.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
Your range probably won't go for it. They are there to make money, right? By saying no ARs, they are depriving themselves of a very large part of the market. IMHO.
Depends on the range. My range is privately owned by the board and is a non-profit. It exists to provide a place to shoot, not to make a profit. Dues ($100/year) are set to cover insurance (phenomenally expensive), maintenance, and the occasional upgrade. It has several disconnected ranges. Generally, anyone who wants to rip off rounds from an AR or AK, or work on handgun defense, or blow up pictures of politicians with a shotgun, they go to the any-legal-firearm any-reasonable-target 100-yd "plinking" range. If you want to work on gun safety training with your son you go to the training or pistol ranges. If you want to sight in a .243 hunting rifle you go to the 100-yd Benchrest range. If you want to shoot longer distances you go to one of the High Power ranges.

In the OP's case, as long as you give the wanna-be rambos a place to play there's nothing wrong with a separate range where they are restricted. Maybe not restricted specifically by name or action type (nothing wrong with sighting in the scope on a Remington 750), but by rate of fire or something similar.
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