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Old 01-27-2015, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,581 posts, read 9,005,745 times
Reputation: 5402

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I believe the issue is the lack of education/experience of the shooters and not the weapon platform involved. I see lots of "idiots" handling revolvers, single shot rifles, shotguns and all other types of weapons. Many should not even be allowed to look at a weapon, much less own and operate one. HOWEVER, the only way they will become proficient is through frequent use and practise.

I also see lots of idiot drivers on the road, of all ages, genders, and ethnicities. There is obviously not all that much training and education can do on it's own as most if not all of those crazy drivers have passed state mandated training and even a practical test before being let loose on the road in a deadly weapon called a car or truck. Until they have an adequate amount of practice and the proper mindset, they are a menace to society. It is the same with new shooters.

I have been shooting for fun only a few years now and still find I have to concentrate on range etiquette. I grew up with guns as tools for hunting and not much else unless your life was in danger. We learned to only point it at something we wanted dead, only load it when we were ready to use it and put it on safety when we were crossing fences or in camp. Otherwise that rifle was ready for use whenever the game appeared.

I did not learn about clearing and locking open breaches, dropping magazines, or leaving a handgun on the bench when stepping off the line until I started shooting at public ranges. There is a lot of range etiquette I still struggle to keep aware of as I handle weapons at the bench. The only one I can truly say is second nature is muzzle direction and a hot chamber. Other than those two, I have to keep my mind on the rules to ensure I don't lapse into my hunting mode.

When I first started shooting, I was told of many of the rules and tried hard to obey. I found that when I got excited or frustrated, these rules would sometimes drop from my consciousness until I realized I had stepped over to my bag with my pistol still in my hand, or I had started to go to my target with my weapon on the bench with the bolt closed (always empty though). I really had to stay aware of things early on, and still need to focus on some rules to remember to obey them.

You have noticed a bunch of newbies shooting AR platforms and want to take action against them by restricting their platform. You might as well try to control new drivers by putting restriction of specific makes of cars if you noticed that most new drivers chose Kias or Hondas. You might get short term relief, but they will just move to another platform and behave just as badly until they gain the experience to know and act better.

You would find much better results if your club would instead focus on low cost or free supervised practise sessions and training classes. This would serve to provide these new shooters with more practice, cluster the newbies together at specific times and days under supervision, and give you a chance to educate them on just how stupid they were and how much better you are as their instructor. They will learn to be just like you.
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Old 01-27-2015, 06:56 PM
Status: "Rocktober...well that was fast. :-(" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,300 posts, read 10,454,166 times
Reputation: 13249
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
You have noticed a bunch of newbies shooting AR platforms and want to take action against them by restricting their platform. You might as well try to control new drivers by putting restriction of specific makes of cars if you noticed that most new drivers chose Kias or Hondas. You might get short term relief, but they will just move to another platform and behave just as badly until they gain the experience to know and act better.
I hate to nitpick but this is not even close to a representation of my post. What I did say was that AR shooters often monopolize the bench. I went on to say I suspect many of these shooters are new to sport shooting, which brings on a subset of challenges. At no point have I indicated I want to "take action against them by restricting their platform." What I did say was that I'd like to see my club add another bench designated for bolt or pump action rifles only. This is not restricting ARs or other semi-autos, as they still have access to the current bench. What this does is ensure greater accessibility for other shooters as well, though. That is the opposite of restricting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
You would find much better results if your club would instead focus on low cost or free supervised practise sessions and training classes. This would serve to provide these new shooters with more practice, cluster the newbies together at specific times and days under supervision, and give you a chance to educate them on just how stupid they were and how much better you are as their instructor. They will learn to be just like you.
The club does host NRA classes and I believe fields its own safety courses from time to time. I'd be fully in favor of requiring a range safety, weapons handling, and range etiquette class for all new members. A lot of the shooters at this club are experienced shooters, but we do get some pretty green lumber as well. I like a new shooter who shows up and is eager to learn. I don't have much use for any shooter, new or experienced, who feels comfortable bringing his whole clan along and monopolizing an entire bench.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,581 posts, read 9,005,745 times
Reputation: 5402
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
I hate to nitpick but this is not even close to a representation of my post. What I did say was that AR shooters often monopolize the bench. I went on to say I suspect many of these shooters are new to sport shooting, which brings on a subset of challenges. At no point have I indicated I want to "take action against them by restricting their platform." What I did say was that I'd like to see my club add another bench designated for bolt or pump action rifles only. This is not restricting ARs or other semi-autos, as they still have access to the current bench. What this does is ensure greater accessibility for other shooters as well, though. That is the opposite of restricting.

Take a look back at your original post. It seems like you want to take a more global action against semi auto shooters than simply creating a new bench.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
It is bad enough at my club that I am going to start campaigning for a "semi-auto restricted" rifle range where ARs are not allowed. observations. Or maybe I am an anomaly.

If you can make an argument for a new area or bench for a specific type of shooting which excludes semi-auto weapons, then that is one thing. I don't think it will make any difference in safety or in the context of the rest of your 'rant'.



Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
The club does host NRA classes and I believe fields its own safety courses from time to time. I'd be fully in favor of requiring a range safety, weapons handling, and range etiquette class for all new members. A lot of the shooters at this club are experienced shooters, but we do get some pretty green lumber as well. I like a new shooter who shows up and is eager to learn. I don't have much use for any shooter, new or experienced, who feels comfortable bringing his whole clan along and monopolizing an entire bench.
My club does similar, but also has a new member evaluation where a range safety officer observes the applicant in a private shooting session before approving them to the club for application review. We have regular shooting basics classes at no charge for member and numerous advanced skills classes at little or no charge to members. It is not a "from time to time" commitment to train new shooters in safety. These classes must be frequent enough and at convenient times for the newbies to be drawn to them. If you do not make it your mission you will find yourself sharing a bench with a bunch of reckless knuckleheads firing in your direction as often as the target.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,581 posts, read 9,005,745 times
Reputation: 5402
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
I hate to nitpick but this is not even close to a representation of my post. What I did say was that AR shooters often monopolize the bench. I went on to say I suspect many of these shooters are new to sport shooting, which brings on a subset of challenges. At no point have I indicated I want to "take action against them by restricting their platform." What I did say was that I'd like to see my club add another bench designated for bolt or pump action rifles only. This is not restricting ARs or other semi-autos, as they still have access to the current bench. What this does is ensure greater accessibility for other shooters as well, though. That is the opposite of restricting.

Maybe you would be better served by adding a bench that is restricted to AR only. This would serve to move them away from you without alienating them to you as much.
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:36 PM
Status: "Rocktober...well that was fast. :-(" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,300 posts, read 10,454,166 times
Reputation: 13249
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
Take a look back at your original post. It seems like you want to take a more global action against semi auto shooters than simply creating a new bench.
You really have to read into it and misinterpret it in order to reach that conclusion. You managed that, but seemed to overlook the part where I wrote in plain English that I am also an AR shooter. Not sure what your agenda is. I've shared an observation. You are free to share your experiences whether they are similar or completely different than my own. Please don't seek an agenda in my post that doesn't exist. That dog doesn't hunt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
If you can make an argument for a new area or bench for a specific type of shooting which excludes semi-auto weapons, then that is one thing. I don't think it will make any difference in safety or in the context of the rest of your 'rant'.
Keep in mind my rant has two parts: 1) AR shooters over crowding the bench, and 2) many of them appear to be novices, which leads to safety issues. Adding a new bench does not necessarily solve issue #2, but it helps with issue #1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
Maybe you would be better served by adding a bench that is restricted to AR only. This would serve to move them away from you without alienating them to you as much.
Build a new bench for bolt/pump only or build a new bench for AR only, either way the affect is the same: more bench space for non-AR shooters and AR shooters as well, as they also would not have to compete for their space with those not shooting ARs. The bolded is a non-starter. This isn't about alienating anyone. The suggestion for a new bench is an effort to improve the facility so that it better accommodates its members. As for safety issues, it is very much on the individual who takes on the responsibility of owning a firearm to bring himself to an acceptable standard. Experienced gun owners should be willing to offer polite, professional coaching when and where a situation dictates. Hopefully the new shooter will be willing to listen.
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Old 01-27-2015, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,428,561 times
Reputation: 2147483647
There is nothing wrong with separating shooting styles, if the range has the room and the resources. Like you, I don't want to stand next to the .50 cal and sometimes I really don't want to shoot next to the guy trying to see if he can really melt down a barrel.

We are very lucky around here as our range is club owned and has just shy of 10,000 acres. We have 7 ranges, 21 shotgun lanes, indoor pistol range, archery range and an archery gold course. Most of the ranges are 25, 50, 100, 200 and 300 yards. One range is 25, 50, 100, 500, and 1000 yards. One of the ranges is silhouette. One of the ranges is single load, single shot only.

Dues are $55 and 8 hours. $55 per year and you have to do 8 hours of range improvements. You can sign in and go out and work on backstops, trails, etc... any time you want, or, there are two Weekends (one spring, one fall) when the range is shut down. Several construction company's donate loaders, dump trucks, road graders, etc... and everybody pitches in working on all the ranges, roads, club house. We also have bar-b-q''s a few times a year. We host the regional championship and or shotguns. We even have an RV park that we open up that holds 50 rv's and we even turn on the power poles to the spaces.
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Old 01-27-2015, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,317,512 times
Reputation: 7232
After reading through this thread, I am better able to appreciate the fact that any time I want to shoot all I have to do is go out in to the back yard.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:58 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,543,418 times
Reputation: 5210
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
After reading through this thread, I am better able to appreciate the fact that any time I want to shoot all I have to do is go out in to the back yard.


same here whip, especially on my new 1000 meter range. makes for plenty of undisturbed shooting.
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