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View Poll Results: What's a better first gun for a beginner?
.22lr 20 64.52%
9mm 11 35.48%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-30-2015, 04:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
I have a older USA blued and a limited edition Italian all stainless. For target work you wouldn't be disappointed.

9mm kings are Sig Sauer P-226/P-228, Glock G-17/G-19, Beretta 92FS/M9, CZ-75B, Browning Hi-Power.......


Then all the other children......
I'm curious. . . What makes those the kings?
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Old 01-30-2015, 04:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
Handgun: You must purchase through an FFL in your state. This means you have to get an FFL out of state to transfer (ship) the handgun to an FFL in-state who transfers it to you. Many stores near state lines have reciprocal arrangements with an FFL across the line so the fee isn't that huge.
You can purchase from anyone you want to in any state. It must be transferred to you through an FFL in your state. There is no law requiring it to be sent from an FFL.
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Old 01-30-2015, 05:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zardac View Post
Armed Forces: Quick Kill - TIME

You're right on with the "young hero" designation... except the youth and heroism- that's me!
I know I was right, it's my Sr. aka "old man" "Dad".

You didn't think a Army guy would get away with insulting a Marine like that elsewhere, did you?




Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
Point away!! The last time I was at a local gun show, 1000 rounds of reloaded 9mm ran me $189! And that was up from the $160 I had paid just the month before!!
Roll your own, you'll save big money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
I'm curious. . . What makes those the kings?
You're looking at some of the most popular, most reliable, accurate and well used "wonder 9s" in the world. The U.S. Military, NATO and Law Enforcement agencies across the globe won't dispute that fact. I left out HK on purpose....they perform very well, however their price-point and availability of replacement parts puts them out of the realm of most civilians.

XDms and S&W M&Ps need to get some more mileage in before holding a title like that. These go back to the 1980s at the latest. The Browning Hi-Power 1920s and 1930s. That's a long long track record. I can vouch for their well earned reputation, I have them in my own personal collection and have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds through the course of my lifetime through most of these. I have a 2nd Gen Glock 19 I bought in 1993 that I put well over 25,000 through that same weapon.


You wouldn't be disappointed with any that I have listed.
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Old 01-30-2015, 05:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
You're looking at some of the most popular, most reliable, accurate and well used "wonder 9s" in the world. The U.S. Military, NATO and Law Enforcement agencies across the globe won't dispute that fact. I left out HK on purpose....they perform very well, however their price-point and availability of replacement parts puts them out of the realm of most civilians.

XDms and S&W M&Ps need to get some more mileage in before holding a title like that. These go back to the 1980s at the latest. The Browning Hi-Power 1920s and 1930s. That's a long long track record. I can vouch for their well earned reputation, I have them in my own personal collection and have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds through the course of my lifetime through most of these. I have a 2nd Gen Glock 19 I bought in 1993 that I put well over 25,000 through that same weapon.


You wouldn't be disappointed with any that I have listed.
I would agree with you on the Glocks. The rest, I'm not so sure about.

Military and police usage really skews the data, but often times, police and military contracts are decided on factors other than "what's best."

Take a look at the two most popular "action shooting" games, USPSA and IDPA. What guns are shooters buying (with their own money) and winning with? In the categories that allow it, it is some form of 1911. In all other categories (except revolver) it is Glock and S&W M&P. All of the others, the Sigs, the HK's, the XD's, the Beretta's, etc. are hardly a blip on the radar. If any of those guns were "Kings" we would expect to see them in the winners circle. And that rarely happens.
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
I would agree with you on the Glocks. The rest, I'm not so sure about.

Military and police usage really skews the data, but often times, police and military contracts are decided on factors other than "what's best."

Take a look at the two most popular "action shooting" games, USPSA and IDPA. What guns are shooters buying (with their own money) and winning with? In the categories that allow it, it is some form of 1911. In all other categories (except revolver) it is Glock and S&W M&P. All of the others, the Sigs, the HK's, the XD's, the Beretta's, etc. are hardly a blip on the radar. If any of those guns were "Kings" we would expect to see them in the winners circle. And that rarely happens.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlrVMz7ILgU


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Old 01-30-2015, 09:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
Interesting video, but it has nothing to do with what I posted.
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Old 01-30-2015, 09:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Interesting video, but it has nothing to do with what I posted.
Sig Sauer P-226 Navy or MK25. I have one here.......wanna see it?


Also HK MP5 Navy. Don't have one of those here.
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Old 01-30-2015, 09:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
Sig Sauer P-226 Navy or MK25. I have one here.......wanna see it?


Also HK MP5 Navy. Don't have one of those here.
Oh, I am well aware of the weapons used by the SEAL's. I started shooting IPSC back in the early '80's in San Diego, and I have shot with a number of them. Is your contention that if a weapon is used by the SEAL's that it deserves "King" status?

Again, take a look at the civilian dominated action shooting games. It is an extremely rare event to see a SIG (any model) being shot by a winning shooter. If that list of weapons (Sigs, the HK's, the XD's, the Beretta's, etc.) were "Kings" they would be dominating the action shooting games. They don't. They never have. It is highly unlikely that they ever will. And unfortunately, a video of SEAL's shooting MP-5's doesn't change that.
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Old 01-30-2015, 09:28 PM
 
141 posts, read 114,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Oh, I am well aware of the weapons used by the SEAL's. I started shooting IPSC back in the early '80's in San Diego, and I have shot with a number of them. Is your contention that if a weapon is used by the SEAL's that it deserves "King" status?

Again, take a look at the civilian dominated action shooting games. It is an extremely rare event to see a SIG (any model) being shot by a winning shooter. If that list of weapons (Sigs, the HK's, the XD's, the Beretta's, etc.) were "Kings" they would be dominating the action shooting games. They don't. They never have. It is highly unlikely that they ever will. And unfortunately, a video of SEAL's shooting MP-5's doesn't change that.
It should!



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Old 01-30-2015, 09:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
It should!



OK, I'll play along. Why should it?
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