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Old 01-30-2015, 02:55 PM
 
2,004 posts, read 1,141,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
Or in other words you are talking a 150 FPS on average gain for the 30.06.....vs better accuracy for the .308.

I already knew about the "accuracy"......
The accuracy of the. 308 is not better than the 30.06, that is a myth never proven beyond repeated stories. Magazine tests are not reliable sources nor are anecdotes from Billys, Bobbies, and Bubbas.
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Old 01-30-2015, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,774 posts, read 3,683,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Year2525 View Post
The accuracy of the. 308 is not better than the 30.06, that is a myth never proven beyond repeated stories. Magazine tests are not reliable sources nor are anecdotes from Billys, Bobbies, and Bubbas.
The "myth" comes from the military. The 30-06 has recoil energy right at the involuntary flinch point (~20ft-lb) for most average people. Therefore, many fresh military recruits just learning to shoot weren't very accurate because they flinched with every shot. The .308 has recoil energy below this point (~17ft-lb), so less flinching, so "more accuracy".

But your point is also valid. Assuming similar weapon qualities, there should be zero difference in accuracy between a 0.308" bullet fired out of a .308 Win and a 0.308" bullet with the same BC fired out of a .30-06. But them I'm not a "competition" shooter, so what do I know?
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Old 01-30-2015, 04:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
I wouldn't want one of those in Montana let alone Alaska. No way.

When I'm in bear country I carry a .45-70 Marlin.
That holster looks like a Diamond D "Guides Choice." Am I correct? If so, how do you like it? I am thinking about getting one for my 629 Mountain Gun.
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Old 01-30-2015, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
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OP, I would go with something more like what Threerun suggested. 7.62X39 is very marginal for bear, IMHO. From what I have read, they charge faster than you might think, you will not have a lot of time for repeat shots. Any bullet that does not reach vitals, preferably either penetrating the skull into the brain (thick skull, small brain - can you quickly determine correct point of aim to hit the brain from various angles?) or breaking a large leg bone essentially just makes the bear madder.
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Old 01-30-2015, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
13,420 posts, read 42,778,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
The "myth" comes from the military. The 30-06 has recoil energy right at the involuntary flinch point (~20ft-lb) for most average people. Therefore, many fresh military recruits just learning to shoot weren't very accurate because they flinched with every shot. The .308 has recoil energy below this point (~17ft-lb), so less flinching, so "more accuracy".

But your point is also valid. Assuming similar weapon qualities, there should be zero difference in accuracy between a 0.308" bullet fired out of a .308 Win and a 0.308" bullet with the same BC fired out of a .30-06. But them I'm not a "competition" shooter, so what do I know?
I think you are confusing inherent accuracy with trajectory. You are quite right that the same bullet fired at the same velocity from either rifle will have the same trajectory.

I don't have a good reference at hand, but common knowledge is that if you got say 20 Ruger bolt guns in 308 and 20 more in 30-06, scope them up and shoot for example Federal Match ammo in each gun (you can tell why this experiment has not been done and documented, right? Would be a long day at the bench) the *average* group size for the 308s would be a bit better.

Now as to "shoot-ability" or how much recoil a specific shooter can take and stay accurate, without flinching - that varies a lot from shooter to shooter, rifle weight, stock shape, etc. will also have effects.

The difference in accuracy between the 308 and 30-06 is not enough to get excited about, but target shooters have gravitated to the 308 to gain a small advantage.
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Old 01-30-2015, 05:16 PM
 
141 posts, read 114,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Year2525 View Post
The accuracy of the. 308 is not better than the 30.06, that is a myth never proven beyond repeated stories. Magazine tests are not reliable sources nor are anecdotes from Billys, Bobbies, and Bubbas.



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No "myth" about it!
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Old 01-30-2015, 06:08 PM
 
2,004 posts, read 1,141,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
I think you are confusing inherent accuracy with trajectory. You are quite right that the same bullet fired at the same velocity from either rifle will have the same trajectory.

I don't have a good reference at hand, but common knowledge is that if you got say 20 Ruger bolt guns in 308 and 20 more in 30-06, scope them up and shoot for example Federal Match ammo in each gun (you can tell why this experiment has not been done and documented, right? Would be a long day at the bench) the *average* group size for the 308s would be a bit better.

Now as to "shoot-ability" or how much recoil a specific shooter can take and stay accurate, without flinching - that varies a lot from shooter to shooter, rifle weight, stock shape, etc. will also have effects.

The difference in accuracy between the 308 and 30-06 is not enough to get excited about, but target shooters have gravitated to the 308 to gain a small advantage.
The. 308 is a short action cartridge, often preferred by silhouette shooters and such. The military preferred to short action because it was a better length for individual weapons like the M14, it wasn't accuracy. The flinching and so on have to deal with the shooter, nit the accuracy of the rifle. For bear though, none of the mid weights like the. 308/30-06 are really suitable if something larger is available. As always, bullet placement is king because missing with a. 458 mag is useless if you end up as bear dung.
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:20 PM
 
Location: In a state of mind
5,998 posts, read 6,373,832 times
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Don't listen to these guys. An AK 47 with 7.62 is just fine for grizzly.

Just be sure it's on full auto and you have at least three 40 round magazines.

Grenades are good too, just before the bear eats you, toss it down his throat. Boom!

See, there are legitimate reasons our 2nd Ammendment rights should not be infringed.

Me, a 12ga coach gun or pump with slugs is enough, backed up with a 44 mag or .460 if you can take the recoil.
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:25 PM
 
141 posts, read 114,623 times
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I also know of yet another caliber no one mentioned yet.........7.62x54R Russian.

That would do the job as well.



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Old 01-30-2015, 08:32 PM
 
141 posts, read 114,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamies View Post
Don't listen to these guys. An AK 47 with 7.62 is just fine for grizzly.

Just be sure it's on full auto and you have at least three 40 round magazines.


Grenades are good too, just before the bear eats you, toss it down his throat. Boom!

See, there are legitimate reasons our 2nd Ammendment rights should not be infringed.

Me, a 12ga coach gun or pump with slugs is enough, backed up with a 44 mag or .460 if you can take the recoil.
With an AK that is equipped with a Russian Kobra 1S-03 red dot, I'd feel safer than a "guides gun" any day while defending myself against an angry bear.



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