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Old 01-31-2015, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
11,819 posts, read 15,435,170 times
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There are a lot of questions on this sub-forum on "Which gun is best for bear defense.....?" I'm coming to the conclusion the best answer is "If you think that's fine, then go for it"...

I think I'm done talking about grizzly's and Alaskan browns. If someone is going into the brush with big bruins and can't do solid research without resorting to internet forums, well then I'd have to say Darwin may have a hand in all of this..
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:36 PM
 
141 posts, read 121,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
I imagine that no Alaska guide wants to take you hunting interior grizzly and larger bears armed any rifle smaller than the .30-06 loaded with ammo that is loaded with heavy or strong bullets, since it is the guide who has to track an injured bear. Also, if you come to Alaska to hunt bears and spend a few $-thousands for the hunt, it would make no sense to bring such a small gun. And if you are planning to hunt near the sea, Kodiak for example, where it rains, snows, and so on, your rifle can easily turn into a rust bucket unless you find a way to keep it clean and dry.

That said, the "all around" bolt-action rifle calibers in Alaska are the .30-06, .300WM, and .338WM. The .375 is not as popular as the rest, and is mostly preferred in the coastal areas, including Kodiak, although most large bears are killed by hunters during the moose season in September. The .45-70 loaded with hard-cast ammo is good for areas where the shots are close, but it's not the best choice for large open areas. For example, for bear defense when picking wild blueberry I favor my .45-70 or at least my .454 Casull loaded with hard-cast ammo. But for moose hunting in wide open areas I use a .338WM that's scoped with a Leupold Vary-X III 2.5-8x, and loaded with Branes 225-grain TTSX ammo.

Stainless steel is favored by the coastal areas. Also make sure to check with the guide to know the type of firearm he or she recommends if you are spending your cash to hunt bears in Alaska. The worst thing you can do is to get advise other than from the guide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annuvin View Post
Can you kill a big bear with a 7.62x39 round? It's certainly possible. David killed Goliath after all.

That being said...


A .30-06 is the absolute minimum one should choose for hunting an Alaskan brown bear, with a premium 180 grain A-frame round and correct shot placement a must when doing so. Personally, I'd suggest a .300 Win Mag for hunting and a .45-70 Government lever gun for simple protection when trekking in big bear country.

I have heard far too many horror stories of what has happened to the hapless hunter who brought on 1500+ lbs of pure rage by firing what amounts to a pea shooter at one of these animals. You may get lucky with an underpowered round, but do you really want to take that chance when being eaten alive is the alternative if you come up short?



IIRC, a .44 magnum has the same force at the muzzle as a .30-30 does at 100 yards. As such, you would need to have a serious deathwish to go anywhere near a brown bear armed solely with a pistol.
I don't understand all the hate for the 7.62x39mm caliber in this thread and the AK platform in general. It's certainly not a toy and in certain configurations can and will top anything else you will find and or buy at Gander Mountain, Bass Pro or Dick's.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:40 PM
 
141 posts, read 121,820 times
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Let's not forget about this one too......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISAo91LcqFI


That adult full grown bear is childsplay and an easy victim.
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:49 PM
 
6,045 posts, read 2,790,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
I don't understand all the hate for the 7.62x39mm caliber in this thread and the AK platform in general. It's certainly not a toy and in certain configurations can and will top anything else you will find and or buy at Gander Mountain, Bass Pro or Dick's.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c
So, a video of a SOT burning up a near worthless post sample on multiple mag dumps somehow supports your statement that the AK "will top anything else you will find and or buy at Gander Mountain, Bass Pro or Dick's"? Do you realize how unrelated these two things are?

[Mod cut]

Last edited by ElkHunter; 01-31-2015 at 11:43 PM.. Reason: Personal attack.
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,626 posts, read 11,021,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
I don't understand all the hate for the 7.62x39mm caliber in this thread and the AK platform in general. It's certainly not a toy and in certain configurations can and will top anything else you will find and or buy at Gander Mountain, Bass Pro or Dick's.
There is no inherent "hate" for the AK in this thread. (Not in general, anyway. I've been on the receiving end of AK fire and am not a fan for obvious reasons...) Nobody questions the AK's (and x39) reputation as a man stopper. But the OP asked specifically about bear defense. Even a small bear is immanently stronger than a human of similar or even significantly more weight. The AK's effectiveness against bears is probably limited to specimens below 500 pounds, and it is probably a marginal weapon at that level.

As for it "topping" other weapons, it all depends on the the intended use of the weapon. Different weapons are intended for different purposes. If you are trying to compare an AK to say, a Remington 700 you are not making a valid comparison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
Let's not forget about this one too......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISAo91LcqFI


That adult full grown bear is childsplay and an easy victim.
I didn't watch the video, but I fail to see the relevance. Do you not understand what we are actually talking about here? Is there any confusion that we are not talking "AK vs human" we are talking "AK vs bear." If you are going to hunt bear, why would you attempt to do so with a weapon designed specifically to kill humans? In case you're not aware, we are much smaller, more frail, and weaker than bears. It takes more gun to kill a bear than a human.

I am stating that for the record just in case there is any confusion.
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:17 PM
 
141 posts, read 121,820 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
So, a video of a SOT burning up a near worthless post sample on multiple mag dumps somehow supports your statement that the AK "will top anything else you will find and or buy at Gander Mountain, Bass Pro or Dick's"? Do you realize how unrelated these two things are?

Based on your posts in multiple threads, you have got to be trolling.
You can stick to the single shot over/under 30.06 if you want to. I'd take an AK or an M1 Garand or a M1A any day instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
There is no inherent "hate" for the AK in this thread. (Not in general, anyway. I've been on the receiving end of AK fire and am not a fan for obvious reasons...) Nobody questions the AK's (and x39) reputation as a man stopper. But the OP asked specifically about bear defense. Even a small bear is immanently stronger than a human of similar or even significantly more weight. The AK's effectiveness against bears is probably limited to specimens below 500 pounds, and it is probably a marginal weapon at that level.

As for it "topping" other weapons, it all depends on the the intended use of the weapon. Different weapons are intended for different purposes. If you are trying to compare an AK to say, a Remington 700 you are not making a valid comparison.




I didn't watch the video, but I fail to see the relevance. Do you not understand what we are actually talking about here? Is there any confusion that we are not talking "AK vs human" we are talking "AK vs bear." If you are going to hunt bear, why would you attempt to do so with a weapon designed specifically to kill humans? In case you're not aware, we are much smaller, more frail, and weaker than bears. It takes more gun to kill a bear than a human.

I am stating that for the record just in case there is any confusion.
All it takes is one 7.62x39mm THROUGH that bear's skull or THROUGH his heart. He won't know the difference between that or a 45-70.
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:20 PM
 
1,076 posts, read 469,811 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
So, a video of a SOT burning up a near worthless post sample on multiple mag dumps somehow supports your statement that the AK "will top anything else you will find and or buy at Gander Mountain, Bass Pro or Dick's"? Do you realize how unrelated these two things are?

Based on your posts in multiple threads, you have got to be trolling.
That video did show something.

He shot 300 rounds after the AK was on fire. We do not know how many rounds he shot to get to the point of setting the AK on fire. However, look closely, he got 9 drums in the video picture and he shot one 30-round magazine: 9 x 75 + 30 = 705. It seems he shot at least 705 rounds in a sustained automatic fire power fashion. And, the AK did not fail (he just could not hold on to it).

In comparison, there was a similar video that someone shot 800 rounds (magazines, not drums) through an AR. In that case, the AR barrel exploded.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSizVpfqFtw
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:20 PM
 
6,045 posts, read 2,790,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
You can stick to the single shot over/under 30.06 if you want to. I'd take an AK or an M1 Garand or a M1A any day instead.
Do you realize how many of your posts are non sequiturs?
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,626 posts, read 11,021,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
All it takes is one 7.62x39mm THROUGH that bear's skull or THROUGH his heart. He won't know the difference between that or a 45-70.
Right. A .22lr would do it, too. IF, and that's a big IF, it actually could penetrate. Therein lies the argument. Is the AK enough to penetrate through the skull (likely not) or into other vital organs (almost impossible against a charging bear)? You seem very certain of yourself and your AK, so if you want to go hunt grizzlies with a gun designed to shoot human targets, be my guest. We'll be reading your obituary in short order is my guess.
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Old 01-31-2015, 09:30 PM
 
141 posts, read 121,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txjl123 View Post
That video did show something.

He shot 300 rounds after the AK was on fire. We do not know how many rounds he shot to get to the point of setting the AK on fire.
What I got was when you put my Kobra red dot on an AK...it's more suited to a charging bear than a high powered limited capacity rifle with a Leupold on it. Did you watch my balloon and RC car exercise?
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