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Old 02-01-2015, 03:33 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
Reputation: 2654

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
We discussed this in a previous thread and some impressive stats and facts were shown.

In Alaska, or anywhere else for that matter, whatever firearm is used had better be carried at the ready and have a round chambered. The average bear charge, from time they are noticed, to impact of bear hitting you, is 1.2 seconds and is less than 12 feet. How fast are you? How fast can you swing a long gun into position and from what direction? For that matter, even carrying a handgun at the ready, and chambered, how. fast can you bring into position, in the direction of charge and how many rounds can you get off?
I can unholster and accurately fire a round at a stationary target from 5-25 yards and expect an impact within about a 12" circle in about that time.

I CANNOT say I would trust myself AT ALL to do the same to a charging bear.

If you said that I had 1.2 seconds I would go with the spray. NO WAY will anything but a brain shot solve your problem. Spray might. Doubtful the bear would react to the pain and insult of a bullet with anything but increased aggression.

Now, a rifle carried at low-ready...That might do something. Maybe. I'd still pick the spray for a 1.2 second-to-impact charge.

I'm not pro-bear or anti-gun in the least, I just feel that would be my best chance of making it home.
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:56 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCP Island View Post
Many of these 7.62x51 or (.308) rifles I posted can and will do sub 1/2 MOA at 100 yards or you send it back. You got a lemon or a turd and it needs addressed or fixed.
1/2 MOA...some people consider a 3 shot group acceptable. I consider it a joke. A game of odds. Give me half a day and I can get most anything to post at least 1 3-shot group that's 1/2 MOA or close to it.

10 shot groups that are 1/2 MOA...THAT is a 1/2 MOA rifle/optic/ammo/shooter combo.

It's a combo, and that's what gets most people. They want a nice rifle to shoot itself. They don't want to spend the money on match projectiles, figure out what depth to seat them to, work up a load with a powder and primer combo that proves good, measure the run-out of the bullet in the case, weigh everything, spend the money on a quality optic, etc.

Rarely, you will meet someone who has done this. Even MORE rare is meeting someone who has done this, who has ALSO done their part in the combination of strengthening the organic component. Everyone wants to blame the rifle.

Anyway, I have found that a solid combo is anything/anyone who can shoot 1 MOA 10shot groups off a bench. In the field, 2.5 MOA is sufficient for anything but vermin or "long-range" hunting.

I guess my point is..."1/2 MOA" guarantees are a bit flaky and very subject to interpretation.
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Old 02-01-2015, 01:03 PM
 
Location: In a state of mind
5,998 posts, read 6,363,201 times
Reputation: 11253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
You are more than welcome to hunt in Alaska with your AK whatever. Have at her.
Threerun is probably a Trauma Surgeon, I smell a vested interest here.

Oh, BTW, I can draw from concealed and put two rounds CM in 1.8 seconds (Front Sight basic graduation standard). That would be AFTER my brain registered that holy carp there is a bear 12 feet away about to eat me. Which means I would probably be taking a head shot from inside it's throat.

Also, good luck justifying a threat of attack by shooting some park rangers pet grizzly from 150 feet or yards away. My guess is anything much over about 20-30 feet would be an upsell. If you live.

The NatGeo channel looks so much better now.
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Old 02-01-2015, 01:28 PM
Status: "Gone hunting until December!" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
10,947 posts, read 14,593,711 times
Reputation: 11405
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamies View Post
Threerun is probably a Trauma Surgeon, I smell a vested interest here.

Oh, BTW, I can draw from concealed and put two rounds CM in 1.8 seconds (Front Sight basic graduation standard). That would be AFTER my brain registered that holy carp there is a bear 12 feet away about to eat me. Which means I would probably be taking a head shot from inside it's throat.

Also, good luck justifying a threat of attack by shooting some park rangers pet grizzly from 150 feet or yards away. My guess is anything much over about 20-30 feet would be an upsell. If you live.

The NatGeo channel looks so much better now.
That interview I linked a few pages back shows two bowhunters that encountered a grizz. Bear was charging and closed the distance to the guy in like 7-8 seconds. He dumped all his rounds and on the last bullet the bear dropped within 10 feet of the guy.

I would ship my pants for sure.

Last edited by Threerun; 02-01-2015 at 02:03 PM..
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Old 02-01-2015, 01:31 PM
 
141 posts, read 114,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
1/2 MOA...some people consider a 3 shot group acceptable. I consider it a joke. A game of odds. Give me half a day and I can get most anything to post at least 1 3-shot group that's 1/2 MOA or close to it.

10 shot groups that are 1/2 MOA...THAT is a 1/2 MOA rifle/optic/ammo/shooter combo.

It's a combo, and that's what gets most people. They want a nice rifle to shoot itself. They don't want to spend the money on match projectiles, figure out what depth to seat them to, work up a load with a powder and primer combo that proves good, measure the run-out of the bullet in the case, weigh everything, spend the money on a quality optic, etc.

Rarely, you will meet someone who has done this. Even MORE rare is meeting someone who has done this, who has ALSO done their part in the combination of strengthening the organic component. Everyone wants to blame the rifle.

Anyway, I have found that a solid combo is anything/anyone who can shoot 1 MOA 10shot groups off a bench. In the field, 2.5 MOA is sufficient for anything but vermin or "long-range" hunting.

I guess my point is..."1/2 MOA" guarantees are a bit flaky and very subject to interpretation.
Any competent reloader and competition rifle shooter/hunters can and do this everyday...set aside 'Snipers'. People who resort to store bought ammo don't do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamies View Post
Threerun is probably a Trauma Surgeon, I smell a vested interest here.

Oh, BTW, I can draw from concealed and put two rounds CM in 1.8 seconds (Front Sight basic graduation standard). That would be AFTER my brain registered that holy carp there is a bear 12 feet away about to eat me. Which means I would probably be taking a head shot from inside it's throat.

Also, good luck justifying a threat of attack by shooting some park rangers pet grizzly from 150 feet or yards away. My guess is anything much over about 20-30 feet would be an upsell. If you live.

The NatGeo channel looks so much better now.
You wouldn't let a bear get 12 feet away from you......

Even average handgun person to person engagements average out to around 21+ feet themselves.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8mqAYAxrlg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Vz-psojhc



But as for the park ranger........he should see what a USMC O317 is capable of. You can throw rocks more accurately than his 'Ruger' product......
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Old 02-01-2015, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Back and Beyond
2,605 posts, read 2,397,420 times
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I am not really a bear hunter... But I do hike around a lot up here in Alaska. I carry bear spray at the ready, and sometimes a smaller 12 gauge loaded down with slugs... Mainly because that is my only gun at the moment and I feel really comfortable with the 12 gauge over a rifle... I will be in the market for a new gun soon, With that being said for close quarters camp/bear defense (not hunting) do you guys think a rifle would be better or worse than 8 12 gauge slugs? If so, which rifle? I don't want to p%!*y foot around here.
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:36 PM
 
141 posts, read 114,503 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.7traveler View Post
I am not really a bear hunter... But I do hike around a lot up here in Alaska. I carry bear spray at the ready, and sometimes a smaller 12 gauge loaded down with slugs... Mainly because that is my only gun at the moment and I feel really comfortable with the 12 gauge over a rifle... I will be in the market for a new gun soon, With that being said for close quarters camp/bear defense (not hunting) do you guys think a rifle would be better or worse than 8 12 gauge slugs? If so, which rifle? I don't want to p%!*y foot around here.
12 Gauge slugs do a lot of damage quickly...especially if they are 3" or 3 1/2" magnums. You'll have to be much closer and personal with one though. I'd recommend a semi auto or a double barrel over a pump unless it's an old Ithaca pump that can slamfire. (Hold down the trigger and just work the slide)

You want to be able to shoot fast during a full on charge.
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Old 02-01-2015, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,420,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.7traveler View Post
I am not really a bear hunter... But I do hike around a lot up here in Alaska. I carry bear spray at the ready, and sometimes a smaller 12 gauge loaded down with slugs... Mainly because that is my only gun at the moment and I feel really comfortable with the 12 gauge over a rifle... I will be in the market for a new gun soon, With that being said for close quarters camp/bear defense (not hunting) do you guys think a rifle would be better or worse than 8 12 gauge slugs? If so, which rifle? I don't want to p%!*y foot around here.
I would take the shotgun over the rifle, and like mentioned above, a semi auto.

Personally, a few years back I bought a .500 S&W mag and loaded it up with 440 grain bullets. I also bought a lanyard to carry it around my neck. Its quicker than a holstered weapon and easier than carrying it in your hand, it gets heavy when carrying it. Besides, if the first round doesn't completely stop him, I don't want the gun knocked out of my hand.
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Old 02-01-2015, 08:56 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
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First off, fmj isn't legal to hunt with. Second, you may as well be shooting target arrows at it if your goal is to just punch pencil sized holes through game that won't slow it down. Gambling someone can hit a running target the size of a basketball, or you die, is just stupid. I'd want min of the larger caliber 30s or a magnum handy. For that game I'd take either my SAR8 or Dragunov. Big capacity semi-autos that will have deep penetration plus expansion. I'd use copper bullets too for those mean suckers. 45-70 would also be a great choice.
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Old 02-01-2015, 09:46 PM
 
141 posts, read 114,503 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
First off, fmj isn't legal to hunt with. Second, you may as well be shooting target arrows at it if your goal is to just punch pencil sized holes through game that won't slow it down. Gambling someone can hit a running target the size of a basketball, or you die, is just stupid. I'd want min of the larger caliber 30s or a magnum handy. For that game I'd take either my SAR8 or Dragunov. Big capacity semi-autos that will have deep penetration plus expansion. I'd use copper bullets too for those mean suckers. 45-70 would also be a great choice.
For hunting yes, self defense or protection you use what you brought. I saw a documentary of a cougar stalking a mountain biker from behind for miles. The biker kept turning around when he heard it's claws clicking on the road but the cougar was evasive and duct behind cover. The guy knew someone or something was behind him, though couldn't see what it was. He finally caught up with him and attacked from behind knocking him off his bike before it proceeded to maul him. A good old boy driving his pickup up the same road saw the incident and bailed out with his 5 cell D MAGLITE flashlight in hand. He beat that cougar to one inch of his life with it and made him let go of the man saving his life.


Use what ya got!
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