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Old 02-05-2015, 10:31 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,776 posts, read 14,150,267 times
Reputation: 11850

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Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer View Post
I think this is a bunch of crap typical police bashing common to CD by people with agendas.. we dont know what happened on the side of the road and we have only one side of this story

If I pull over a ccw owner (required disclosure here) and he doesnt disclose it tells me the person isnt complying with the COURTESY their law enforcement official is giving them (the Sheriff) to carry concealed. I hold CCW owners responsible for the weight of carrying a gun and potentially having the ability to use deadly force. Now.. you state you dont have to disclose and get your panties in a wad saying thats your right... What about just being plain smart...

If I have no reason to look in your car or search you and you arent a knucklehead then I would never know you ever had a gun... but if for some reason not disclosed to you I got you out.. and you didnt tell me.. you might be laying on the ground with my gun stuck in your face,, ok.. you showed me... man did you ever..

You showed me your just plain stupid....

I have also drawn down on idiots who didnt tell me and I saw their weapon...

As far as complaining.. yes.. that's your "right".. but what did you really hope to accomplish? give the officer heartache.. ok.. you'll do that.. get him some more training.. maybe you'll do that... get him to give the next person a break.. no you probably wont have helped that... and all of this may subject you to your LEO agency deciding for cause not to issue a CCW to you anymore.. (remember.. with that CCW comes no negative contacts with LEO?.. that might include citations).. not every spudnut automatically gets a gun...

I talk to people and treat them like I would want to be treated.. when they act like knuckleheads they get treated.. professionally.. like knuckleheads... I dont argue on the side of the road... nor do I argue with someone who has a gun.. legal or not.. roadside lawyers arent going to get to state their case.. that comes later.. HOWEVER.. if a citizen states something to me respectfully and Im wrong Ill say so and thank them and wont repeat that mistake.. (after carefully researching it).. I dont like to make mistakes because I have to testify and I dont like getting boxed in the ears by defense attorneys.. I am successful by being aware of the law. Fortunately we have an aggressive legal update training in service program...

To the OP... I think you may be getting a bunch of tickets in the future... attitude+ driving+ stupidity= knucklehead behind the wheel.. add immaturity and a gun.. not smart

Dashcams are a great idea.. I have one in every POV I own... to protect my license.. which is necessary for me to be employed... I dont care if you videotape me at all (appropriately without jamming a camera in my face when Im trying to talk to you.. that would be just plain disrespectful and not good communication and might get you listed as a knucklehead).. Im videotaping you.. so we can have stereo,, one minor difference.. I am protecting my job and gathering evidence.. you might be a spudnut and trying to set me up and make a case where there wasnt one

What happened America... where have we gone so wrong.... complainer nation... sad

Pro gun..pro CCW.. pro constitution.. absolutely PRO mature behavior

If I had told my grandfather (Boston Motor Officer) this story when I was young he would have boxed my ears telling me what a jerk I was for getting pulled over.. and complaining.. no.. no complaining..
Makes sense to me but theres an awful lot of bad ass tough talkers on the internet but I'll bet that's all they are, a lot of talk. When push comes to shove with the police they turn into Mr milquetoast.
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:42 AM
 
2,004 posts, read 1,141,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncc49 View Post
Listen I am critical of the police as anyone, but disclosing that you have CCW is a great way to disarm the situation and let the cop know that you are one of the good guys as to obtain one you must be a law abiding citizen.

This puts the cop more at ease. I have had one particular time where I disclosed it and actually got out of a ticket with just a warning. The cop and I had a nice chat too.

These guys are just doing their jobs and there is no need to be adversarial with them when it isn't warranted.
Giving more information than required or requested just invites potential problems. Like the typical question "where are you headed?". None of their business, none at all. At DUI checks that question can come up. They have no need to know where you are going or where you came from. Unless you are DUI, they should check and let you pass. Same for your CCW. It doesn't put them at ease, why should it? Do you stop the cop on the street and tell them you are carrying ti put them at ease? Unless they are going to search you, telling them you are carrying serves no purpose. Do you automatically tell the cop who stops you that you came from the pharmacy and have prescribed drugs in the glove box?
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:46 AM
 
2,004 posts, read 1,141,274 times
Reputation: 2904
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
Makes sense to me but theres an awful lot of bad ass tough talkers on the internet but I'll bet that's all they are, a lot of talk. When push comes to shove with the police they turn into Mr milquetoast.
Why is there push comes to shove with the police? Have there been any posts on this thread about being disrespectful or not following the law? If so why not point them out? There hasn't been a single post bashing police either so just what are you talking about?
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:56 AM
 
2,004 posts, read 1,141,274 times
Reputation: 2904
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer View Post
I think this is a bunch of crap typical police bashing common to CD by people with agendas.. we dont know what happened on the side of the road and we have only one side of this story

If I pull over a ccw owner (required disclosure here) and he doesnt disclose it tells me the person isnt complying with the COURTESY their law enforcement official is giving them (the Sheriff) to carry concealed. I hold CCW owners responsible for the weight of carrying a gun and potentially having the ability to use deadly force. Now.. you state you dont have to disclose and get your panties in a wad saying thats your right... What about just being plain smart...

If I have no reason to look in your car or search you and you arent a knucklehead then I would never know you ever had a gun... but if for some reason not disclosed to you I got you out.. and you didnt tell me.. you might be laying on the ground with my gun stuck in your face,, ok.. you showed me... man did you ever..

You showed me your just plain stupid....

I have also drawn down on idiots who didnt tell me and I saw their weapon...

As far as complaining.. yes.. that's your "right".. but what did you really hope to accomplish? give the officer heartache.. ok.. you'll do that.. get him some more training.. maybe you'll do that... get him to give the next person a break.. no you probably wont have helped that... and all of this may subject you to your LEO agency deciding for cause not to issue a CCW to you anymore.. (remember.. with that CCW comes no negative contacts with LEO?.. that might include citations).. not every spudnut automatically gets a gun...

I talk to people and treat them like I would want to be treated.. when they act like knuckleheads they get treated.. professionally.. like knuckleheads... I dont argue on the side of the road... nor do I argue with someone who has a gun.. legal or not.. roadside lawyers arent going to get to state their case.. that comes later.. HOWEVER.. if a citizen states something to me respectfully and Im wrong Ill say so and thank them and wont repeat that mistake.. (after carefully researching it).. I dont like to make mistakes because I have to testify and I dont like getting boxed in the ears by defense attorneys.. I am successful by being aware of the law. Fortunately we have an aggressive legal update training in service program...

To the OP... I think you may be getting a bunch of tickets in the future... attitude+ driving+ stupidity= knucklehead behind the wheel.. add immaturity and a gun.. not smart

Dashcams are a great idea.. I have one in every POV I own... to protect my license.. which is necessary for me to be employed... I dont care if you videotape me at all (appropriately without jamming a camera in my face when Im trying to talk to you.. that would be just plain disrespectful and not good communication and might get you listed as a knucklehead).. Im videotaping you.. so we can have stereo,, one minor difference.. I am protecting my job and gathering evidence.. you might be a spudnut and trying to set me up and make a case where there wasnt one

What happened America... where have we gone so wrong.... complainer nation... sad

Pro gun..pro CCW.. pro constitution.. absolutely PRO mature behavior

If I had told my grandfather (Boston Motor Officer) this story when I was young he would have boxed my ears telling me what a jerk I was for getting pulled over.. and complaining.. no.. no complaining..
Apples and oranges. You cited an example of someone disobeying a law, the law to disclose. If that law doesn't apply then what you said makes no sense and looks more like abuse of power. Respect and courtesy work both ways. If you believe that the badge and gun you have place you above the law and allow you to let your personal attitude affect how you enforce the law, you are in the wrong job. If someone makes you upset or bothers your personal emotions and you use that as justification in law enforcement, you are wrong every day if the week and twice on Sundays and bring disservice to the department. We need level headed cops who treat the people they serve with respect, courtesy and impartial assessments of the situation that is presented. The job is to protect and serve, not judge and punish.
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Old 02-05-2015, 11:49 AM
 
7,282 posts, read 8,390,715 times
Reputation: 11407
This is much simpler.

In any contact between humans, both sides must give respect and consider others If not, bad things usually happen.

Police Officers work in a unique environment, often in contact with the scum of society. That doesn't mean treating everyone that way though because sooner or later, even the mild mannered will take offense and stand up for themselves.

Often, you see two types, those that look to escalate a situation because they have authority and power associated with their job and those who seek to maintain or de-escalate conflicts until that option isn't appropriate. In our society, we are seeing more of the former and need more of the later. It isn't unique to law enforcement, the problem is that when law enforcement is involved, the consequences can quickly become deadly.

Police Officers are often observant. There is no need to declare much. If you get stopped, just include your CCW card with your driver license and such, when asked is you are in a disclosure state, not before not surely not being the class clown and blurting out you have a CCW and gun.

Claiming your CCW in a non-disclosure state could be seen as an attempt to gain favor. If the state you live in does not have a disclosure law, then that means there is a reason for it, it didn't happen because someone forgot to include it.

There are valid arguments on both sides of the topic but after all is said and done, of both the person stopped and the police officer exhibit proper decorum then not disclosing in a non-disclosure state/county shouldn't introduce any problems. The officer deals with the reason for the stop and that is all there should be.

If everyone follows the law, then there is no reason for a stop to escalate into anyone looking at the business end of a muzzle. If it ends that way, almost always someone did or said something wrong and that too can come from either side.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,433,454 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer View Post
I think this is a bunch of crap typical police bashing common to CD by people with agendas.. we dont know what happened on the side of the road and we have only one side of this story

If I pull over a ccw owner (required disclosure here) and he doesnt disclose it tells me the person isnt complying with the COURTESY their law enforcement official is giving them (the Sheriff) to carry concealed. I hold CCW owners responsible for the weight of carrying a gun and potentially having the ability to use deadly force. Now.. you state you dont have to disclose and get your panties in a wad saying thats your right... What about just being plain smart...

If I have no reason to look in your car or search you and you arent a knucklehead then I would never know you ever had a gun... but if for some reason not disclosed to you I got you out.. and you didnt tell me.. you might be laying on the ground with my gun stuck in your face,, ok.. you showed me... man did you ever..

You showed me your just plain stupid....

I have also drawn down on idiots who didnt tell me and I saw their weapon...

As far as complaining.. yes.. that's your "right".. but what did you really hope to accomplish? give the officer heartache.. ok.. you'll do that.. get him some more training.. maybe you'll do that... get him to give the next person a break.. no you probably wont have helped that... and all of this may subject you to your LEO agency deciding for cause not to issue a CCW to you anymore.. (remember.. with that CCW comes no negative contacts with LEO?.. that might include citations).. not every spudnut automatically gets a gun...

I talk to people and treat them like I would want to be treated.. when they act like knuckleheads they get treated.. professionally.. like knuckleheads... I dont argue on the side of the road... nor do I argue with someone who has a gun.. legal or not.. roadside lawyers arent going to get to state their case.. that comes later.. HOWEVER.. if a citizen states something to me respectfully and Im wrong Ill say so and thank them and wont repeat that mistake.. (after carefully researching it).. I dont like to make mistakes because I have to testify and I dont like getting boxed in the ears by defense attorneys.. I am successful by being aware of the law. Fortunately we have an aggressive legal update training in service program...

To the OP... I think you may be getting a bunch of tickets in the future... attitude+ driving+ stupidity= knucklehead behind the wheel.. add immaturity and a gun.. not smart

Dashcams are a great idea.. I have one in every POV I own... to protect my license.. which is necessary for me to be employed... I dont care if you videotape me at all (appropriately without jamming a camera in my face when Im trying to talk to you.. that would be just plain disrespectful and not good communication and might get you listed as a knucklehead).. Im videotaping you.. so we can have stereo,, one minor difference.. I am protecting my job and gathering evidence.. you might be a spudnut and trying to set me up and make a case where there wasnt oneI

What happened America... where have we gone so wrong.... complainer nation... sad

Pro gun..pro CCW.. pro constitution.. absolutely PRO mature behavior

If I had told my grandfather (Boston Motor Officer) this story when I was young he would have boxed my ears telling me what a jerk I was for getting pulled over.. and complaining.. no.. no complaining..
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNative34 View Post
This.



They issue permits under the state statute, not out of some courtesy gesture.
First off, I will say that if I am pulled over I will give the officer every bit of information I am asked for. I'm not going to jamb my license, registration and proof of insurance in his face, until he asks for it. If he asks if I have a gun, I will answer truthfully, but I'm not going to volunteer that information until asked. I live in Wyoming where there is no need to have a ccw to carry concealed. An officer is trained to expect that every person is possibly carrying. If he asks, I will answer.

You kind of indicate you are Leo. With that attitude? You called me dumb, stupid, and an idiot, and this is just on a forum where we should be discussing without anger entering in to it. Now I am curious how your roadside manner is. If the law don't require it, why bring it up? That is the problem of this topic. Somebody mentioned more training. Training is not the problem, the officers attitude was the problem.

I understand, and would certainly comply if the law said to inform the officer. In this case the law said you don't have to, so why do it and why take crap off of a police officer that over stepped his authority, with an attitude. I get the biggest kick out of people saying, "give him a break, the officer might have had a bad day.". Well guess what, the person being pulled over can also have a bad day. But, the officer having a bad day is supposed to be excusable, but the person pulled over is an attitude problem and will be harassed to no end. I'll respect you and your position, but I expect it in return.. Unlike you, I expect it, but I don't demand it. As the person that is pulled over, I'm already on the downside. of any thing that happens. One last thing, like you I won't argue on the roadside, the courtroom is the place for that.

The bottom line is, the law clearly states that you DO NOT have to reveal and when he didn't, the officer over stepped his bounds.

My state is constitutional carry. There is no requirement for permission to carry concealed. I can conceal and so can any legal resident. We can get a permit, should we want to have reciprocacy with other states and if we do, we don't have to get 'permission' from the Sheriff. We are a 'shall issue' state.
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Last edited by ElkHunter; 02-05-2015 at 09:10 PM..
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:52 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,776 posts, read 14,150,267 times
Reputation: 11850
Maybe it's just me but I'm taking the advice from some of the respected LEO's that post gun safety on the internet rather than the " I don't need no permit to carry" posters.
If you pull me over you're getting my DL right along with my carry permit. Takes all the guesswork and suspicion right out of the situation.

However if I'm on my way home from just robbing a gas station or bank i ain't tellin dem cops nuttin.
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:00 AM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,037,836 times
Reputation: 3138
To the people saying it's right to disclose...why?

The only reason I'm ever getting pulled over is for a routine benign traffic violation.

There is no reason in the world that the cop has to know I'm packing. I'm not going to be exiting the car or interacting with the cop beyond "yes I know why I was pulled over, I was being a idiot, sorry about that, do what you gotta do". Me carrying a gun for my own protection has nothing to do with the stop, it's totally irrelevant. Only time it would ever be relevant is if the cop tries to kill me for no reason, in which case I'm going to be acting in self defense. I would say that would never in a million years actually happen, but it seems cops are getting stupider and more aggressive with every passing year...

Telling the cop I'm packing is just asking for WAY more trouble then needed to be introduced to the situation. I've read all kinds of horror stories of people who thought they were doing the right thing by disclosing only to be held up for 4x longer then they would've been, being harassed, etc. Too many cops don't know what the hell they're doing.

Ignorance is bliss. Better that the cop doesn't know I'm packing and assumes I'm just another sheep who was driving too fast, or slid through a stop sign, or whatever. If in the very rare situation that me packing somehow has relevance, I'll disclose it. I honestly can't think of one though.
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:08 AM
 
2,004 posts, read 1,141,274 times
Reputation: 2904
Respected LEOs, you refer to the anonymous posters on CD? Unless they can prove their credentials they aren't anything but someone with an Internet connection. Me? I'd rather just follow the law instead of what anyone on the Internet says. If the law says disclose I do. If not, I do not. If the cop is put at ease because someone says they have a CCW then they are a fool. Anyone could say that. Hello?
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:15 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,776 posts, read 14,150,267 times
Reputation: 11850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Year2525 View Post
Respected LEOs, you refer to the anonymous posters on CD? Unless they can prove their credentials they aren't anything but someone with an Internet connection. Me? I'd rather just follow the law instead of what anyone on the Internet says. If the law says disclose I do. If not, I do not. If the cop is put at ease because someone says they have a CCW then they are a fool. Anyone could say that. Hello?
I guess you are clueless who the respected gun trainers are. That's OK I didn't know either until I did some research.

I'll help you out here,

Massad Ayoob - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If he's not good enough for you I don't know what to say. Just go along with those who agree with you.
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