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Old 02-17-2015, 07:35 AM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,419,547 times
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The best video clip to punctuate this debate is the famous scene in Get Shorty where Ronnie pulls his jacket back to show the Model 67 S&W in his belt and Ray Barboni has an ATM 380 which ronnie dismisses: " whatcha got there? A Wop 9 ... the Fiat of guns, always jammin' on you at the wrong time." At which point Ray puts 4 shots in Ronnie's chest. I didn't post the clip because of NSF C-D language. But it is one of the best two minutes on film.
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Old 02-17-2015, 08:01 AM
Status: "Rocktober...well that was fast. :-(" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,300 posts, read 10,454,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Lee View Post
This is an age old question and of course carry the largest caliber firearm that you will actually carry, any firearm is better than no firearm but for me a 9mm is the smallest that I feel a person should carry and with tiny 9mm firearms around on the market, such as the Ruger LC9, there is no longer a reason to carry a 380 or smaller.

For times when it is impossible to carry my Glock 27 .40, or my Kahr E9 9mm, then begrudgingly I go to my secondary which is a North American mini 22 magnum but those times are very rare.
Let me make sure I understand you, specifically the bolded. Are you saying a person should carry a 9mm at minimum even if they are uncomfortable with a caliber/cartridge of that size? Even if a .380, or smaller fit them perfectly, because you happen to have an opinion on the matter, they should still upgrade to the 9mm or larger? Does the shooter's individual preference and comfort level not weigh more with you than your opinion on the matter?
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Old 02-17-2015, 08:04 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,802 posts, read 30,052,880 times
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We kill all our cattle with a .22 so I don't see why it would pose a problem on humans.
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Old 02-17-2015, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Happyville, North Carolina
2,374 posts, read 2,023,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
We kill all our cattle with a .22 so I don't see why it would pose a problem on humans.
Agreed. During hog slaughter. Not a pretty sight, but a .22 is used.
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Florida & Cebu, Philippines
2,808 posts, read 2,238,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
Let me make sure I understand you, specifically the bolded. Are you saying a person should carry a 9mm at minimum even if they are uncomfortable with a caliber/cartridge of that size? Even if a .380, or smaller fit them perfectly, because you happen to have an opinion on the matter, they should still upgrade to the 9mm or larger? Does the shooter's individual preference and comfort level not weigh more with you than your opinion on the matter?
I am writing from my opinion and my experiences, so yes, as long as a person can handle a 9mm, then I feel that should be the minimum caliber they should carry. For people who cannot handle the recoil of a 9mm, then I guess they will have to carry a lower caliber but with lots of people out there on drugs, should a person run into such a person and have to use their firearm against them to protect their own life, then I feel, and from personal experience, that a smaller caliber may not do the trick.


I had this discussion with a friend of mine years back but he liked the whole James Bond thing and insisted on carrying a ppk, well one day a guy with a S&W model 39 9mm robbed him and he shot it out with the guy only for the bad guy to die but not until emptying his magazine and hitting my friend a few times and was still standing pulling the trigger long enough that my friend was very thankful the guy was only carrying an 8 shot with lead reloads or he would not have lived to tell about it. BTW from that day forward my friend carries a .357.

No handgun has the magic bullet and placement has a lot to do with one shot stops but the larger the caliber the more chance of a one shot stop if you hit the bad buy in a vital area. With a brain shot most calibers will do but a moving head may not be that easy to hit.
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:54 AM
 
8,133 posts, read 5,702,064 times
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Whatever you are willing to carry around with you. A .45 is ideal but they are usually not the most convenient firearm to carry. I'd rather the .22 that is convenient than the .45 that I never bring because it is a hassle.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:45 AM
Status: "Rocktober...well that was fast. :-(" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,300 posts, read 10,454,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Lee View Post
I am writing from my opinion and my experiences, so yes, as long as a person can handle a 9mm, then I feel that should be the minimum caliber they should carry. For people who cannot handle the recoil of a 9mm, then I guess they will have to carry a lower caliber but with lots of people out there on drugs, should a person run into such a person and have to use their firearm against them to protect their own life, then I feel, and from personal experience, that a smaller caliber may not do the trick.
It's fair to write based on your opinion and experiences, this shapes much of what all of us say. But the words, "as long as..." are a HUGE qualifier. In your earlier post you stated there was "no longer a reason to carry a .380 or smaller" which is simply not a true statement. Shooter confidence is a reason. Recoil, competence, etc are reasons. What about a shooter who carries in a consistently crowded location? Flight of the bullet is a reason to carry smaller: one has the right to protect himself, but not to put others at risk in doing so. In this case a smaller round may be appropriate because it is less likely to punch through an assailant and hit a by-stander.

Ultimately the best personal defense caliber one should carry is the one they are most competent and confident using.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Lee View Post
I had this discussion with a friend of mine years back but he liked the whole James Bond thing and insisted on carrying a ppk, well one day a guy with a S&W model 39 9mm robbed him and he shot it out with the guy only for the bad guy to die but not until emptying his magazine and hitting my friend a few times and was still standing pulling the trigger long enough that my friend was very thankful the guy was only carrying an 8 shot with lead reloads or he would not have lived to tell about it. BTW from that day forward my friend carries a .357.

No handgun has the magic bullet and placement has a lot to do with one shot stops but the larger the caliber the more chance of a one shot stop if you hit the bad buy in a vital area. With a brain shot most calibers will do but a moving head may not be that easy to hit.
I suspect what happened to your friend is an exception more than the rule, though. You didn't mention how many shots your buddy had to fire, or how many actually struck the assailant in the torso or head. I trust your friend was a competent shooter and hit the guy in the box with one of his first shots? Otherwise your example is a non-starter.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:07 PM
Status: "Rocktober...well that was fast. :-(" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,300 posts, read 10,454,166 times
Reputation: 13249
In response to this rep comment:

"A .22 can kill you hours or days later, there is no question about it. You need the attacker to sit down right now. A 22 won't do that......ask Mike Brown who was shot several times with a .40 S&W and kept coming."

Yes, I am aware that a larger round is more likely to be effective right on the spot. But as we saw in the Brown case, even that is no sure thing. Also, Brown was larger than the average human. Is his case study an exception? It can and should be considered so for his size alone. Most people aren't 6' or more and weight 300+ pounds.

Lastly, rep comments are for approval of a post. Rebuttals to posts should be done openly, not anonymously.

Last edited by iknowftbll; 02-17-2015 at 12:19 PM..
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:32 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,543,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamies View Post
All at once?

The only caliber worth carrying is a .44 magnum. Everyone knows that. Why you don't even need to hit 'em, the concusion alone will make the bad guys eyes bleed.

I saw a guy shot in the forehead at close range with a .25. It bounced off! Literally. Hit the heavy bones and richoceted off. Didn't even give him a headache.



please do not spout off like that. any bullet can bounce off of a bone, even a 44 magnum. I carry all of those firearms at once, and have magazines for reloads if necessary. 1 bullet might and a very big might bounce off, but not 18.
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Old 02-17-2015, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Florida & Cebu, Philippines
2,808 posts, read 2,238,055 times
Reputation: 2852
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
I suspect what happened to your friend is an exception more than the rule, though. You didn't mention how many shots your buddy had to fire, or how many actually struck the assailant in the torso or head. I trust your friend was a competent shooter and hit the guy in the box with one of his first shots? Otherwise your example is a non-starter.

People can argue all day long, I have no idea how many people you have actually had to shoot but things change when you have actually been there and done that. If you have and walked away while using a smaller caliber then more power to you.

As for my friend, he emptied his PPK into the perp and hit him with three center mass kill shots but the one shot that hit the guy in the side as he turned his body that went into his liver was the one that the autopsy showed actually finally killed the perp.

I have seen first hand guys with their brains all over the street from a .25, so as I said before, a brain shot will usually work with any caliber but stopping the blood flow to the brain with a body shot is much more difficult to accomplish with a smaller caliber weapon.

My point in my first post being that they now have 9mm which are as smaller than most .380's used to be but they do have the tiny Keltec 380 which is a tiny finger breaker if one were to practice a lot with it.

Carry the firearm you feel the most confident with but I hope the day never comes that anyone has to stop an armed person with anything less than a 9mm, should that perp happen to be on drugs, thus even when I am carrying a 9mm or .40 I still practice head shots because I have seen people die, even after placing 6 rounds of 38 hollow point out of a 4 inch bbl into the kill zone of a mans chest, only to have him still have enough life left in him to stab the shooter to death before dying themselves.
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