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Old 02-17-2015, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Kirkland, WA (Metro Seattle)
3,421 posts, read 2,814,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle View Post
Whatever you are willing to carry around with you. A .45 is ideal but they are usually not the most convenient firearm to carry. I'd rather the .22 that is convenient than the .45 that I never bring because it is a hassle.
It isn't ideal, for the most part. 'Tis true. Unless you've got a system that is well-tailored to your specifics...which I do.

Under the category of "most-est that one shoots best-est," however, I do have a fine custom built to my specs: a Commander-size 1911 with bobtail that conceals well on me in-particular, when I choose to carry. I've put a modest 10K rounds through several 1911 .45s, from ultra carry to full size 5" barrel, past fifteen years. Also, three multi-day courses with a lot of shooting and scenarios under professional instruction. Thus, I've determined that's the paradigm that clearly works "for me."

Took awhile to figure that out, though. Whereupon I sold most everything else except for that which worked. I think everyone's Goldilocks size and caliber is a bit different, and may depend on the situation specifics.

Whatever works for you.
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,415,173 times
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The first rule is that you don't want the critter to suffer, so carry the largest gun you can comfortably wear, shoot, and purchase. Be able to put them out of 'your' misery with one shot.

The old saying is, 'Dead men don't testify.'
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Old 02-20-2015, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,773 posts, read 3,676,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsthomas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
We kill all our cattle with a .22 so I don't see why it would pose a problem on humans.
Agreed. During hog slaughter. Not a pretty sight, but a .22 is used.
There are huge differences between contact-shooting a trapped or slowly moving animal in the brain (even a large animal like a cow or hog) and rapid-fire center-mass shots at an armed human running and dodging.

Carry the biggest weapon you can in the most powerful caliber you can shoot accurately. If that is a .22LR, then so be it. My wife absolutely cannot shoot anything larger than a .380ACP with anything resembling accuracy (massive flinch), but she can drill the center out of the target with a .22LR.

But while a .22LR is better than a call to 911 or a pointing finger, it's not what I'd consider "adequate". Anyone who can handle a .22LR should be able to handle a .22Mag revolver or .32 ACP semi-auto without too much difficulty. Even a .25ACP would be slightly better than a .22LR in a short-barrel pistol.
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Old 03-03-2015, 05:46 AM
 
195 posts, read 143,754 times
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unless you are seriously feeble, the 9mm should be your bottom line. If you are so feeble, then the 380 is a distant second to the 9mm. even the 9mm requires somewhat rare ammo to be worth a hoot. CorBon 100 gr jhp's, 400 ft lbs, is the way to go.
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Old 03-03-2015, 06:02 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadd View Post
unless you are seriously feeble, the 9mm should be your bottom line. If you are so feeble, then the 380 is a distant second to the 9mm. even the 9mm requires somewhat rare ammo to be worth a hoot. CorBon 100 gr jhp's, 400 ft lbs, is the way to go.
My Mom went with a .22LR secondary to a stroke leaving her grip rather compromised. Through the years, I've honestly questioned if .22LR shouldn't be the recourse of anyone who can't handle a 9mm. I say that, because I honestly don't feel that the .380 offers enough recoil difference with certain 9mm pistols/loadings for anyone to truly justify it vs. a bit more training, to handle the 9mm. If you can't handle a 9mm, honestly and truly, then you probably need a .22. Dunno, just my opinion.
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Old 03-03-2015, 06:35 AM
 
195 posts, read 143,754 times
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very possibly correct about 22 vs 380 recoil and effectiveness., but I don't trust rimfire ammo to feed, fire and extract, especially in today's scarcity market, which causes quality control to be mostly thrown out the window.
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,773 posts, read 3,676,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
My Mom went with a .22LR secondary to a stroke leaving her grip rather compromised. Through the years, I've honestly questioned if .22LR shouldn't be the recourse of anyone who can't handle a 9mm. I say that, because I honestly don't feel that the .380 offers enough recoil difference with certain 9mm pistols/loadings for anyone to truly justify it vs. a bit more training, to handle the 9mm. If you can't handle a 9mm, honestly and truly, then you probably need a .22. Dunno, just my opinion.
This is true, but only because of action type. A 9mm typically uses a locked-breach action typical of high-power rounds, while most .380ACPs use a heavy-spring direct-blowback action typical of low-power rounds. Because of that, and because .380's are usually somewhat lighter guns, the felt recoil is similar. In extreme comparisons, the felt recoil of a sub-sub-compact mouse gun in .380 can actually be more than that of a service-size metal frame 9mm.

But try shooting something like a Walther PK380. It is a compact firearm, but has a full-length grip (especially for someone with small hands), excellent ergonomics, and uses a locked-breach action. Extremely easy to rack the slide, with extremely low felt recoil. My wife can handle it easily, but can't even come close to handling my 9mm.
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:59 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
This is true, but only because of action type. A 9mm typically uses a locked-breach action typical of high-power rounds, while most .380ACPs use a heavy-spring direct-blowback action typical of low-power rounds. Because of that, and because .380's are usually somewhat lighter guns, the felt recoil is similar. In extreme comparisons, the felt recoil of a sub-sub-compact mouse gun in .380 can actually be more than that of a service-size metal frame 9mm.

But try shooting something like a Walther PK380. It is a compact firearm, but has a full-length grip (especially for someone with small hands), excellent ergonomics, and uses a locked-breach action. Extremely easy to rack the slide, with extremely low felt recoil. My wife can handle it easily, but can't even come close to handling my 9mm.
By the same token, try something like a P226 ST 9mm. 40oz tames 147gr standard pressure loads down to pop-gun status.

But if you can't handle that, I don't think there is a .380 made that you are going to magically be G2G with.

.22 sucks, don't get me wrong, but if you honestly cannot handle any 9mm, I doubt any .380 is going to be okay.
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Old 03-04-2015, 12:28 AM
 
195 posts, read 143,754 times
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regardless of how "easy" loads/guns are to control, that sort of ammo aint causing much shock or tissue destruction. The great majority stop at the sight of your gun or at shots that miss them. About half of those shot stop with any sort of hit, by any sort of load, and about 5% don't stop no matter what you hit them with (non spine or brain) In between is the area where the load (and lots of very fast, very destructive hits, can make the difference. The question is your willingness/ability to aquire the ability/gear to do that.

Last edited by dreadd; 03-04-2015 at 12:55 AM..
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Old 03-04-2015, 02:23 PM
 
Location: NJ
15,901 posts, read 10,954,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
The first rule is that you don't want the critter to suffer, so carry the largest gun you can comfortably wear, shoot, and purchase. Be able to put them out of 'your' misery with one shot.

The old saying is, 'Dead men don't testify.'
It's all about shot placement and bullet construction.
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