U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Hobbies and Recreation > Guns and Hunting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-10-2015, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,469,601 times
Reputation: 2147483647

Advertisements

That may be true for a select LEO group, but a Florida case had nothing to do with our local LEO going from 9 mm to .40 cal. Also, they have stayed with .40 and have no intention of switching back.
__________________
[B][COLOR="Red"]"No Copyrighted Material."[/COLOR][/B]
[URL="http://www.city-data.com/"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]CD Home page[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forumtos.html"][COLOR="seagreen"]TOS (Terms of Service)[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/faq/107997-search-function-using-search-function.html"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]How to Search,[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/faq/"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]FAQ's[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/faq/70589-guide-guide-city-data-posting.html"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]Guide[/COLOR][/URL]
[URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/wyoming/"]Wyoming[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/montana/"]Montana[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/north-dakota/"]North Dakota[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/south-dakota/"]South Dakota[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/guns-hunting/"]Guns and Hunting[/URL]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-11-2015, 03:10 AM
 
Location: Vista, CA/Meadow Lakes, AK
229 posts, read 154,895 times
Reputation: 261
Amazing what happens when a good marketing person goes to work....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2015, 11:31 AM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,724 posts, read 8,621,133 times
Reputation: 3831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Year2525 View Post
The adequacy of any defense is solely reliant upon the adequacy of the defender. Like sex, performance relies not on the equipment but on the individual using it. Engage brains not brawn.
I'm not a gun or ammo expert, but I've been doing a lot of research on the topic lately. Most of the informed opinions I have read agree with your statement in general; however, the consensus seems to be that it takes a much more accurate shot and probably more of them to stop an aggressor with a .22/.380/etc. versus a larger caliber. If there were no advantage to a larger bullet, then every LE agency and military service would be using .22. Instead, they mostly use .40, 9mm, or .45 in some cases.

For home defense and target shooting, I've decided on 9mm. I was tempted by .45, but 9mm ammo is much cheaper than .45, meaning I'll be able to practice more. In addition, it's easy to find 9mm guns with 16-19 rounds, whereas for the .45, I believe they top out at around 10, with many (e.g., the 1911) being 8 shots. So that means that with a 9mm, I have double the number of shots to take in a home invasion. If there are multiple bad guys or my aim is off because it's dark and I'm amped up, I might need most of them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2015, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Vista, CA/Meadow Lakes, AK
229 posts, read 154,895 times
Reputation: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
I'm not a gun or ammo expert, but I've been doing a lot of research on the topic lately. Most of the informed opinions I have read agree with your statement in general; however, the consensus seems to be that it takes a much more accurate shot and probably more of them to stop an aggressor with a .22/.380/etc. versus a larger caliber. If there were no advantage to a larger bullet, then every LE agency and military service would be using .22. Instead, they mostly use .40, 9mm, or .45 in some cases.

For home defense and target shooting, I've decided on 9mm. I was tempted by .45, but 9mm ammo is much cheaper than .45, meaning I'll be able to practice more. In addition, it's easy to find 9mm guns with 16-19 rounds, whereas for the .45, I believe they top out at around 10, with many (e.g., the 1911) being 8 shots. So that means that with a 9mm, I have double the number of shots to take in a home invasion. If there are multiple bad guys or my aim is off because it's dark and I'm amped up, I might need most of them.
Your reasoning is sound.

Fact of the matter is, the euro pea shooter round works damned well now. Defensive loads that are on the market (except for that stupid R.I.P. hogwash) are pretty effective. It's a cartridge that's been well tuned over the decades, and it has definite advantages such as mag capacity, cost for practicing, recoil management, flash, etc.

Best thing you can do now is take some classes from some good instructors (and there are lots of them out there that are worthless, but plenty out there that know what they're doing and are good teachers to boot), and shoot as much as you can. Once you get to that point, where you're well trained, any bad habits you have are broken, etc - then start looking into an instructor that will work on stressed firing.

Whole different ball game.......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2015, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,774 posts, read 3,688,828 times
Reputation: 4241
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
That may be true for a select LEO group, but a Florida case had nothing to do with our local LEO going from 9 mm to .40 cal. Also, they have stayed with .40 and have no intention of switching back.
Arguably, that Florida case has everything to do with your local LEO going from 9mm to .40 S&W. If it weren't for that Florida case the .40 S&W would not even exist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2015, 01:14 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,586 posts, read 11,895,255 times
Reputation: 10550
Pretty easy to tell who here has actually been in a self defense scenario..... a real one. The absolute last thing you'll do is think, even those that have extensive training. The amount of focus required is beyond most LEOs so those of you that are weekend shooters, you won't even know what happened. A well place 22 rimfire is far better than a 20 round clip of ammo that hits nothing but fresh air or an 8 round clip of 45 acp. Hollow points, full metal jackets, flying ash trays, they're all a joke if they don't hit anything. See the vid of the police officer shooting the guy in Charleston? He shot 8 times before the subject fell, and this was a well trained LEO. And it's about par for most LEOs. So before you think you have a clue, do a ride around with the LEOs especially in areas along the US/Mexican border. You'll learn differently pretty quick.

The best self defense weapon is loose money. Pull it out and throw it in the air and disappear before the bad guy has a clue what happened. Most often, that's all the bad guy wants anyway. No caliber required, no huge clip, just loose money and it doesn't have to be anything larger than a 1 dollar bill. The bad guy isn't going to count it in the air. Shootouts, leave that to the guys that wear a badge. Yes, there are always options than shooting somebody.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2015, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,469,601 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
Arguably, that Florida case has everything to do with your local LEO going from 9mm to .40 S&W. If it weren't for that Florida case the .40 S&W would not even exist.
Florida may have had something to do with the .40 coming online, but nothing to do with our local LEO switching. I used to work for the Sheriff's Department and was in the meeting when it was recommended, I was evolved with field testing, and in the meeting when the final decision was made. Florida was never brought up. Our whole reasoning was based on an incident where the bad guy was hit six times in the chest and abdominal with a 9 mm. None of which broke skin. It was determined that they needed better penitration capabilities and the .40 provided that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperL View Post
Pretty easy to tell who here has actually been in a self defense scenario..... a real one. The absolute last thing you'll do is think, even those that have extensive training. The amount of focus required is beyond most LEOs so those of you that are weekend shooters, you won't even know what happened. A well place 22 rimfire is far better than a 20 round clip of ammo that hits nothing but fresh air or an 8 round clip of 45 acp. Hollow points, full metal jackets, flying ash trays, they're all a joke if they don't hit anything. See the vid of the police officer shooting the guy in Charleston? He shot 8 times before the subject fell, and this was a well trained LEO. And it's about par for most LEOs. So before you think you have a clue, do a ride around with the LEOs especially in areas along the US/Mexican border. You'll learn differently pretty quick.

The best self defense weapon is loose money. Pull it out and throw it in the air and disappear before the bad guy has a clue what happened. Most often, that's all the bad guy wants anyway. No caliber required, no huge clip, just loose money and it doesn't have to be anything larger than a 1 dollar bill. The bad guy isn't going to count it in the air. Shootouts, leave that to the guys that wear a badge. Yes, there are always options than shooting somebody.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of pistol, or handgun, uses clips? None that I know of.
__________________
[B][COLOR="Red"]"No Copyrighted Material."[/COLOR][/B]
[URL="http://www.city-data.com/"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]CD Home page[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forumtos.html"][COLOR="seagreen"]TOS (Terms of Service)[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/faq/107997-search-function-using-search-function.html"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]How to Search,[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/faq/"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]FAQ's[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/faq/70589-guide-guide-city-data-posting.html"][COLOR="SeaGreen"]Guide[/COLOR][/URL]
[URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/wyoming/"]Wyoming[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/montana/"]Montana[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/north-dakota/"]North Dakota[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/south-dakota/"]South Dakota[/URL], [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/guns-hunting/"]Guns and Hunting[/URL]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2015, 09:48 AM
 
Location: The REAL WORLD.
21,187 posts, read 5,522,006 times
Reputation: 9396
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
Florida may have had something to do with the .40 coming online, but nothing to do with our local LEO switching. I used to work for the Sheriff's Department and was in the meeting when it was recommended, I was evolved with field testing, and in the meeting when the final decision was made. Florida was never brought up. Our whole reasoning was based on an incident where the bad guy was hit six times in the chest and abdominal with a 9 mm. None of which broke skin. It was determined that they needed better penitration capabilities and the .40 provided that.




Just out of curiosity, what kind of pistol, or handgun, uses clips? None that I know of.
I noticed a lot of people interchange the word "clips" for "magazines".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2015, 10:22 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,776 posts, read 14,175,881 times
Reputation: 11851
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
Florida may have had something to do with the .40 coming online, but nothing to do with our local LEO switching. I used to work for the Sheriff's Department and was in the meeting when it was recommended, I was evolved with field testing, and in the meeting when the final decision was made. Florida was never brought up. Our whole reasoning was based on an incident where the bad guy was hit six times in the chest and abdominal with a 9 mm. None of which broke skin. It was determined that they needed better penitration capabilities and the .40 provided that.




Just out of curiosity, what kind of pistol, or handgun, uses clips? None that I know of.
some S&W revolvers do.



http://www.brownells.com/shooting-ac...prod18739.aspx
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2015, 12:55 PM
 
4,771 posts, read 8,399,374 times
Reputation: 3435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
I'm not a gun or ammo expert, but I've been doing a lot of research on the topic lately. Most of the informed opinions I have read agree with your statement in general; however, the consensus seems to be that it takes a much more accurate shot and probably more of them to stop an aggressor with a .22/.380/etc. versus a larger caliber. If there were no advantage to a larger bullet, then every LE agency and military service would be using .22. Instead, they mostly use .40, 9mm, or .45 in some cases.

For home defense and target shooting, I've decided on 9mm. I was tempted by .45, but 9mm ammo is much cheaper than .45, meaning I'll be able to practice more. In addition, it's easy to find 9mm guns with 16-19 rounds, whereas for the .45, I believe they top out at around 10, with many (e.g., the 1911) being 8 shots. So that means that with a 9mm, I have double the number of shots to take in a home invasion. If there are multiple bad guys or my aim is off because it's dark and I'm amped up, I might need most of them.
Glad to see you in this forum

I don't recall who published that there are several ways to cause a bad guy to stop the attack but I recalled one is obviously if the bad guy is hit in the central nervous system (CNS) like the brain or the spinal cord that spontaneously disconnect his brain function from his physical ability to continue the aggression. This is where the ability to shoot where you aim matter more so than the caliber of power of handgun selection, but like many have say here that most of us, including the highly train LEOs, have difficulty to achieve.

Another major factor that causes the bad guys to stop the aggression is psychological, that is ouch I am hit and I do not want to continue get shot so I will stop. Often this works simply by presenting the firearm and that will cause the aggressors to pause and stop. Nobody likes to get shot, not even with a .22LR. In this case, the caliber of choice really matters little.

I agree the best defense is what's between our ears, the weapon is merely a tool. Learn how to recognize a potential danger and get out before things turned ugly. When an armed confrontation is unavoidable, and for most of us this is less than a 0.1% of chance if exercise what's between your ears correctly, choose a gun & caliber that you can shoot well, can hit where you aim, which means a lot of practice in a variety of scenario not just in an indoor range but lean how to shoot off-handed, from different positions, etc. At the end of day, it really matters little if your caliber of choice is .38 spcl or the .45 ACP.

For punching paper or stop evil soda cans I have a wide range of choices that I play with, from .22LR to .454 Casuall. But for home defense I like to choose low pressure rounds such as the .38 spcl or the .45 ACP. Unless you plan to wear ear plugs, letting go a high pressure round in an enclosed environment will shatter your hearings, even if it's only temporarily, and put you in a disadvantage in follow-up shots. Another consideration is over-penetration through the walls into the next room or the room after. A full size gun is also preferred as it provides a lower recoil, option to mount flash light, and offerres a higher capacity. In this case, a .45acp with JHP makes a lot of sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Hobbies and Recreation > Guns and Hunting
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top