U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Hobbies and Recreation > Guns and Hunting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-13-2015, 11:09 PM
 
Location: OC, CA
9,862 posts, read 13,189,716 times
Reputation: 8730

Advertisements

As much as I think JY is a bit of douche he made some damn good points on his video when he keeps beating into the heads of the viewers that..........

training is more important that anything besides have a gun in functioning order which is comfortable to shoot.

Even my post of HCD in my .380 probably doesn't matter much as long as I hit them with a .380 with good shot placement which happens with........good training.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-13-2015, 11:22 PM
 
195 posts, read 143,754 times
Reputation: 155
maybe, but from what I've seen from shooting animals with 380, I"m not going to risk carrying one. The pocket 9's are plenty small enough to "pocket" and are quite controlable with my loads, so why would I settle for something with half as much power?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2015, 11:28 PM
 
195 posts, read 143,754 times
Reputation: 155
People only rarely have anything like the resistance to pain and shock that animals routinely demonstrate. You can hit a 100 lb domestic pig just as hard as you want across the eyes with your hand, and it will just make him squeal and blink. Ditto a kick to the b's. Do the same to a man and 99% of them are going right down. Nobody made any claims as to 100% effectiveness. The issue is the ODDs of success being better, a lot better, with a more destructive, shocking load.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2015, 11:37 PM
 
Location: OC, CA
9,862 posts, read 13,189,716 times
Reputation: 8730
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadd View Post
maybe, but from what I've seen from shooting animals with 380, I"m not going to risk carrying one. The pocket 9's are plenty small enough to "pocket" and are quite controlable with my loads, so why would I settle for something with half as much power?
I beg to differ. The LC9 butt hung out of my pocket at the gun shop the LCP .380 not.

But I agree I would have prefered the LC9 but too bulky for summer carry in short pocket.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2015, 06:36 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,341 posts, read 10,902,291 times
Reputation: 12285
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Talk to people who have been shot. That's a good call. One of my friends was shot in the leg with 7.62x39. It broke his femur. He did not know it until he tried to run and ended up falling. Got up. Tried again. Fell. (He is fine, they killed the booger eater, he continued on as a Ranger until he went civilian SWAT, and happily squats away 4-500#)

All this "knock down" and "pain overpowering them" junk is just so much swill. Just watch a few OIS's on YouTube that ended in fatality secondary to COM placement and loss of blood. The people shot, many times, barely react if at all.

Point and case:

Shooting on a highway in the USA (Soldier VS Police) - YouTube
^That soldier above died a few miles down the road from blood loss.
Mmmm...unfortunately, I have both seen and experienced how several different types of trauma, effect the human body. Trauma induced shock has ...odd..effects. When your body receives severe trauma, the first instinct is to try and keep moving. Why this is, idk, but it happens. Some part of you is trying to say, "I'm alright, if I'm moving, everything's OK". Even when it far from OK. Its when the signals are going out, but nothings happening, and reality sets in, things get really interesting.

Maybe you'll see that limb, just dangling there, or realize you have been relieved of it., or maybe, as with gunshot, "wow, I have ahole through my (insert kimpact area here) You're already in shock. There's no pain, which is hard to grasp, but you don't argue with it. Wben /if you come to, later, you probably won't remember any of it. Sometimes, over time, bits and pieces may come back. Maybe.

Its at that point or "waking", you REALLY wish, pray, scream , to just go back to where you were, in oblivion. That's sums up my own , personal experience. As good as I can do so, anyway. The body can shock out like this even when severe physical trauma is not present. True "incapacitation" doesn't happen till one comes out of that state. When the ...filter..of shock is gone. That moment is the single most unpleasant experience someone will ever endure. I have both experienced and been on the outside , looking in, at this time. When I was the one on the outside, I would have given anything, anything at all, to trade places with that person. But I digress...

We are on the same page in the same book, man.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2015, 12:11 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
ER doc at multiple trauma centers.
My advice?
Empty the clip.
Exactly. I bet you see a lot of people take half a dozen rounds from typical service calibers and they are back on the street just fine. People just don't "get" that. He was shot...he MUST BE DEAD!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2015, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
2,868 posts, read 2,843,280 times
Reputation: 3976
I say if either didn't stop him, no matter what I was carrying, I would shoot for his head. Granted less chance of hitting it BUT more chance of stopping him if you got a solid brain shot. And I certainly would be backing up if he is taking hits and still coming. Just my 2 cents worth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2015, 07:19 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by DauntlessDan View Post
I say if either didn't stop him, no matter what I was carrying, I would shoot for his head. Granted less chance of hitting it BUT more chance of stopping him if you got a solid brain shot. And I certainly would be backing up if he is taking hits and still coming. Just my 2 cents worth.
Violence of action. Backing up while shooting is not only reducing your chances of hitting, but it's also monumentally increasing your chances of tripping and landing on your arse. I highly doubt any of us would know what was behind us on the floor (a stray shoe? trash-can? whatever) and have the presence of mind to step over it while shooting, backing up, and being charged by someone.

Backing up isn't always bad, but it is bad almost always.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2015, 09:54 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,341 posts, read 10,902,291 times
Reputation: 12285
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Actually, permanent incapacitation is not the norm with handguns. Most people shot, live (and I'm not just talking accident to the leg "shot").

Here is an illustration of one such man, who was shot by an officer 5x in the chest with a .357 Magnum.
Trooper Mark Hunter Coates, South Carolina Highway Patrol, South Carolina

Really, it's not as rare as you think. I've cared for multiple GSW victims. Some of them had complications that haunted them for the rest of their lives. Some did not. Some ultimately died secondary to said wounds. Some did not. However, statistically, you are more likely to live than to die.

Since you want an MD's opinion on the matter, her is an MD who decided to give a good talk about this exact subject:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAtzl0e1OT4
The one lobster said he was a trauma doc. I just invited him to chime in. Not a need, just an invitation. I'm basing my commentary on personal experience with massive trauma. Gunshot, in two occasions, knife in one, blunt impact crush in another.

IMO, the most serious, permanent and crippling damage, was done by the knife wound. This due, mainly, to the area the wound was inflicted and the ...determination...of the person wielding it. One of the gunshots was with ball ammo, a 45, into the butt and then exiting out the hamstring. No permanent damage and the subject didn't even know he had been hit right away. The other gunshot was in a knee, . 38 +p jhp, 150 gr, if I remember right. Damage was ...considerable..and the leg was amputated after. Subject went down , immediately, and shocked out.Though he did try to rise and was not screaming in pain, due to shock.


I prefer not to say much about the crush injury. My previous post described the reaction to that well enough. The knif wound, now. Mmm...yes. The blade went in alongside/back of the *******, and the cut continued , upward, stopping about the middle of the lower abdomen. He...stopped what he was trying to do, pretty much immediately. He lived, due to medical care being readily there. However, its bodily functions need aid, and its stuck in a wheelchair.

I don't know the specifics of what was repaired, or how, and don't care. He should have died, from something related to the wound. Secondary staph would have been.OK. But..what is will do. Anyway, individual reactions to trauma vary. Shock is a damn interesting thing. It blocks pain, totally, which I need to be thankful for. I was told, by the paramedic crew and the police, that I was highly combative after the crush injury. Almost unmanageable. So, I do know that a body can be severely injured, and still be dangerous.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2015, 10:45 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
The one lobster said he was a trauma doc. I just invited him to chime in. Not a need, just an invitation. I'm basing my commentary on personal experience with massive trauma. Gunshot, in two occasions, knife in one, blunt impact crush in another.

IMO, the most serious, permanent and crippling damage, was done by the knife wound. This due, mainly, to the area the wound was inflicted and the ...determination...of the person wielding it. One of the gunshots was with ball ammo, a 45, into the butt and then exiting out the hamstring. No permanent damage and the subject didn't even know he had been hit right away. The other gunshot was in a knee, . 38 +p jhp, 150 gr, if I remember right. Damage was ...considerable..and the leg was amputated after. Subject went down , immediately, and shocked out.Though he did try to rise and was not screaming in pain, due to shock.


I prefer not to say much about the crush injury. My previous post described the reaction to that well enough. The knif wound, now. Mmm...yes. The blade went in alongside/back of the *******, and the cut continued , upward, stopping about the middle of the lower abdomen. He...stopped what he was trying to do, pretty much immediately. He lived, due to medical care being readily there. However, its bodily functions need aid, and its stuck in a wheelchair.

I don't know the specifics of what was repaired, or how, and don't care. He should have died, from something related to the wound. Secondary staph would have been.OK. But..what is will do. Anyway, individual reactions to trauma vary. Shock is a damn interesting thing. It blocks pain, totally, which I need to be thankful for. I was told, by the paramedic crew and the police, that I was highly combative after the crush injury. Almost unmanageable. So, I do know that a body can be severely injured, and still be dangerous.
Jives with what I have seen to be the case. The complications I have seen that extend beyond the immediate situation (being the GSW+healing time) have been CNS (spinal), and when the peritoneal cavity is penetrated, especially when bowel is involved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Hobbies and Recreation > Guns and Hunting
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top