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Old 03-10-2015, 07:47 AM
 
195 posts, read 143,902 times
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let's say that a given gun and load, with a single CHEST hit, is a "one shot stopper" 90% of the time. The torso is half guts and there's no reason at all to expect a pistol hit to the guts to have any effect for possibly many minutes. There's nothing immediately vital in the guts.

Let's say that another gun and load combo is a 70% stopper. the first one is a 4" barreled 357 with the reknowned Remington 125 gr jhp, the second is a .38 snub with the plus p 158 gr lhp load. The first is 3x as likely to save you as is the second, even assuming the same hits, hit speed, etc. The 90% load leaves 10 guys out of 100 still attacking you. The .38 snub leaves 30 guys in 100 still attacking you. 10 attackers is 3x as good a situation (at least) as 30 attackers.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:59 PM
 
Location: East Texas, with the Clan of the Cave Bear
2,027 posts, read 4,156,929 times
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Huh?

Let me sip my scotch and ponder this.


I think either has the potential to penetrate to spine depth causing a dislocation of motor signal to the lower limbs thus breaking down the subject and rendering them immobile allowing a measured follow up shot to the head to permanently eliminate the potential for any further threat from the aggressor.


How's that for a run-on sentence?
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Old 03-11-2015, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
7,831 posts, read 7,818,887 times
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Well, we all can't carry a S&W 500.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,773 posts, read 3,678,723 times
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After extensive study, the FBI sez the non-CNS "one shot stop" pistol round is a myth.

Any instantaneous "one-shot stop" is caused either by direct CNS disruption or psychological factors that are independent of bullet size and speed (assuming you are working within the range of standard LEO issue projectiles, i.e., not a .22LR). Everything else is caused by bleed-out, and a .38Spl pushes the same diameter bullet to the same vital organs as a .357 Mag. Maybe a difference in bleed-out in the case of full pass-through when there are two holes in the skin instead of one. Or the watermelon-sized fireball and cannon-like report of the .357Mag simply scares the bad guy into submission, but that's back to psychological.
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:38 PM
 
25,631 posts, read 29,117,065 times
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In da Zombie Pocolypse its all bout da head shot.

Head shot, downs dey goes.

I am da Law!
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:27 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadd View Post
let's say that a given gun and load, with a single CHEST hit, is a "one shot stopper" 90% of the time. The torso is half guts and there's no reason at all to expect a pistol hit to the guts to have any effect for possibly many minutes. There's nothing immediately vital in the guts.

Let's say that another gun and load combo is a 70% stopper. the first one is a 4" barreled 357 with the reknowned Remington 125 gr jhp, the second is a .38 snub with the plus p 158 gr lhp load. The first is 3x as likely to save you as is the second, even assuming the same hits, hit speed, etc. The 90% load leaves 10 guys out of 100 still attacking you. The .38 snub leaves 30 guys in 100 still attacking you. 10 attackers is 3x as good a situation (at least) as 30 attackers.
All that stuff is just junk science. Debunked long ago.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/mars...l-analysis.htm
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:59 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,340 posts, read 10,905,899 times
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I'm not really counting on ANY pistol caliber, of reasonable manageability, to be an instant anything. Unless the opportunity presents for a head shot. The general ineffectiveness of the two most prevalent LE loadings, 9mm and 40 SW, are the reason cops are conditioned to rain spent brass on the ground like a cloudburst T storm. Coupled with always shooting center mass. My experiences and training have taught me , mag dumps aren't the answer. Mindset, and hitting what your aiming at are.
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:34 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,541,451 times
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triple tap, 2 to the chest and 1 to the head. if they are still coming towards you after that, aim for the hip and make sure that they will not be coming to walking. it is hard to be on your feet when your hipbone is shattered.
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Old 03-12-2015, 12:08 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
I'm not really counting on ANY pistol caliber, of reasonable manageability, to be an instant anything. Unless the opportunity presents for a head shot. The general ineffectiveness of the two most prevalent LE loadings, 9mm and 40 SW, are the reason cops are conditioned to rain spent brass on the ground like a cloudburst T storm. Coupled with always shooting center mass. My experiences and training have taught me , mag dumps aren't the answer. Mindset, and hitting what your aiming at are.
While mag dumps are not the answer, rapid multiple hits are, and COM is the most likely place to score those hits. I think simunition training would shatter a lot of people's overestimation of their own abilities.

I often hear people say "Why do police shoot so much, and hit so little, even up close?"

Well, have you ever shot it out with someone across a room? Even with simunitions (which sting, btw)?

The wheels fall off the bus so much more drastically and so much quicker than most people could imagine until they do.

That said... 200# deer routinely take a 180gr slug moving at nearly 3,000fps through both lungs and the heart, and still run dozens of yards. What kind of crack are people smoking when they opine that a measly .45 ACP has a 90% chance of "stopping someone with one shot"?!?
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Old 03-12-2015, 12:11 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
triple tap, 2 to the chest and 1 to the head. if they are still coming towards you after that, aim for the hip and make sure that they will not be coming to walking. it is hard to be on your feet when your hipbone is shattered.
The pelvic girdle shot from a handgun is not typically enough to destroy the bone structure to the point that mobility is compromised.

Again, routinely, 2+1 is a fantasy in a dynamic situation. Typically, it's more like "bangbangbangbang x however many the mag holds" and maybe 25% of that ends up COM.

Now, this is not "I'm holed up in the bedroom and they come through the door". This is a dynamic situation such as "I turned around at the ATM when I heard a noise, and a man with a crow-bar rushed me".

Of course if you are holed up, etc. accuracy and tactics favor you, and considerably less rounds for more hits and better precision are the rule of the day.
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