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Old 04-12-2015, 09:54 PM
 
4,763 posts, read 8,393,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
All of the DA revolvers I have owned, work both ways. You can pull the trigger until she goes bang, each time, OR, you can thumb **** for each shot. DS is what I would buy, and then take it to a good smith and have a trigger job done. Let the smith take a stone to it and get it smoothed out. You will be completely surprised at the difference and how easy and smooth it makes it.
This is where buying quality revolvers really makes a world of difference. My 686 has a light crip SA pull about 3-4 lb, this is after firing ~2 boxes of ammo per week and thousands of dry firing (usd thumb to stop hammer from strike the firing pin after pulling the trigger ) in the first year. It is the smooth trigger action that's why I am a fan of older S&W revolvers.
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Old 04-13-2015, 08:06 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,749 posts, read 2,618,445 times
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I hate DA/SA semi-autos for serious use. Why? Because I shoot well with Glock, M&P, etc. and don't see a need to fix what ain't broke. DA/SA takes a lot of training.
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Old 04-13-2015, 09:49 PM
 
37,072 posts, read 38,342,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
Yeah, I've seen that in videos. Not sure I'd feel safe keeping the gun on the nightstand in that mode--though I admit that worry is not based on any fact, just the idea that the hammer is under tension, held back by one tiny tab (the safety), which could theoretically be bumped out of the way.
Not sure if it all versions but if you look at the Sig's they have no safety. With the hammer decocked that is full "safe mode". Theoretically even if you were smashing it on the ground it should not fire with the hammer cocked or uncocked becsue there is a firing pin lock that can only be unlocked by pulling the trigger. Not that I would suggest trying it.

If it's loaded basically you have hard trigger pull for the first shot . Gun fires, inserts new round and ***** the hammer. Now you have soft trigger pull for second shot. You can manually **** the hammer if you want too and that will give you the soft trigger pull for first shot. If it's not loaded you need to operate the slide which also ***** the hammer. Not sure if it's standard but the one I had came with the decocking lever, as already noted a fantastic option.
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Old 04-13-2015, 10:12 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,749 posts, read 2,618,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Not sure if it all versions but if you look at the Sig's they have no safety. With the hammer decocked that is full "safe mode". Theoretically even if you were smashing it on the ground it should not fire with the hammer cocked or uncocked becsue there is a firing pin lock that can only be unlocked by pulling the trigger. Not that I would suggest trying it.

If it's loaded basically you have hard trigger pull for the first shot . Gun fires, inserts new round and ***** the hammer. Now you have soft trigger pull for second shot. You can manually **** the hammer if you want too and that will give you the soft trigger pull for first shot. If it's not loaded you need to operate the slide which also ***** the hammer. Not sure if it's standard but the one I had came with the decocking lever, as already noted a fantastic option.
City-Data.com...not a friend of the rooster.
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Old 04-14-2015, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,257 posts, read 3,175,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
Need some advice, please!

I've been watching videos and reading articles, and I DO understand the basic principle of SA vs DA: single action means the trigger performs the single act of releasing the hammer. Double action means the trigger also cokcs the hammer, thus two actions.

OK. But in a hammer-fired pistol, it would seem that every shot taken after the first shot MUST be single-action, because the slide moving back cokcs the hammer--right?

In other words: For the first shot with an SA-only gun (assuming it's not already cokced), you have to either rack it or pull the hammer back with your thumb. Thus for that shot, the trigger does a single action. But once you pull the trigger and the gun fires, the slide is pushed back and in turn moves the hammer into the cokced position. And this happens with each shot after that. So even if the gun is SA only (like a 1911 or CZ 75B-SA), it's really only the first shot that's any different from a DA-only semiauto! Do I have that correct?

Thanks in advance.
Even some of the "SPE" (Self Proclaimed Experts) that can be found behind the gun counter in some Sporting Goods stores don't understand what a DA/SA Semi Auto really is.

Approx 25 years ago I bought a S&W Model 669 in 9mm to keep as a "night-table gun". It is (as you described) Double action for the first shot and Single action for all remaining rounds in the magazine. It has a very small exposed hammer which is very difficult to get in the cocked position 'by-hand", but it can be done .....therefore it then is a Single Action Semi-Auto......Back in those days it was considered by some DEA agents as a desireable "back-up" pistol. I acquired 3 or 4 for some agent-friends of mine (back in the days when I had a FFL, and was able to save them a few bucks on the acquisition. Being all Stainless, it is a nice little gun........to bad they discontinued production many years ago. I still fire mine on occasion, but have gone to a Sig 1911 C3 (45acp) for the 'night-stand" gun.
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Old 04-14-2015, 05:06 AM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,724 posts, read 8,614,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
City-Data.com...not a friend of the rooster.
Ha! I guess this also means we can't talk about Tom Jones' no. 1 hit. You know, the one inquiring as to the latest news as reported by the feline.

Thanks for the additional replies helping re. DA/SA. It still boggles my mind as to what the point is of making a gun with just one of those options, given that with DA/SA you can easily treat it as one or the other.
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:33 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,749 posts, read 2,618,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
Ha! I guess this also means we can't talk about Tom Jones' no. 1 hit. You know, the one inquiring as to the latest news as reported by the feline.

Thanks for the additional replies helping re. DA/SA. It still boggles my mind as to what the point is of making a gun with just one of those options, given that with DA/SA you can easily treat it as one or the other.
Consistency of trigger pull. I hate DA/SA.
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Old 04-14-2015, 02:32 PM
 
Location: New-Dentist Colony
5,724 posts, read 8,614,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Consistency of trigger pull. I hate DA/SA.
Fair enough, but could you not, with a DA/SA, simply treat it as an SA-only by racking the slide or cokcing the hammer before the first shot? Does the gun's ability to be shot as DA on that first shot (even if you would never use that feature) come with some drawback?
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
13,420 posts, read 42,789,579 times
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Jeff Cooper also was no fan of DA/SA autos. The problem with these "crunchentickers" as he called them is that the first shot trigger pull is way different from subsequent shots. He posited three approaches for dealing with it -

1 "pure" DA shooting for first shot - if the DA trigger pull is manageable (and most are not near as good as a revolver) go for a hit DA, then continue shooting if necessary SA. Trouble with this is it makes you deal with a difficult trigger pull for what is probably your most valuable shot.

2. Pull back the exposed hammer with your thumb for the first shot. This does not have to involve racking the slide, you can have a round in the chamber, hammer down, safety off. Getting to this condition can be tricky, but as long as the muzzle remains in a safe direction it's not actually dangerous.

3 Just fire the first round in the general direction of the target to get from DA to SA operation. This tends to waste your first most valuable shot, your remaining shots will be after the effects of flash and blast from the first round. For large-capacity magazines, the wasting of the first round with little hope of hitting is not as big a deal.

End of the day - what's wrong with a 1911 in what Uncle Jeff called "condition 1" round in chamber, safety on, ready to rock? A lot of people are uncomfortable with this, but logic says it's the most efficient way to go, and many experts go with this, it's what Gunsite teaches.

For an in-house gat, a reasonably big-bore revolver, particularly one with a good SA/DA trigger job, has a lot to be said for it. How about a 29 or 629, say 4" bbl, loaded with 44 Specials, particularly Silvertips if you can find them?
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Old 04-14-2015, 08:23 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,749 posts, read 2,618,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlingtonian View Post
Fair enough, but could you not, with a DA/SA, simply treat it as an SA-only by racking the slide or cokcing the hammer before the first shot? Does the gun's ability to be shot as DA on that first shot (even if you would never use that feature) come with some drawback?
Why? What is gained? Something new to snag or get lint or other crap under it (hammer) do when I pull the trigger it doesn't go "bang". For no benefit. I'll pass on it for those reasons.
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