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Old 04-19-2015, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Sector 001
7,129 posts, read 5,942,160 times
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I like the SA/DA with the safety/decocker in one like my P95. I'd like to get a CZ 75B in stainless steel, perhaps trade my Springfield XDM in as I just can't fall in love with it's bulky tonka truck appearance. I just love the look of stainless steel. I'd get a Sig P226 if they cost a bit less and I actually like the idea of a safety.

I'd rather use my Ruger P95 for my home defense gun because it's cheap and the police can take it as 'evidence' without breaking the bank... and maybe get a S&W shield for CCW to complement my Ruger LCP.

I dry fire all these regularly and have no problem switching between hammer and striker fired, grip vs thumb safety, etc.

Last edited by stockwiz; 04-19-2015 at 06:07 PM..
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:19 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
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I would be very curious to see those who say DA/SA doesn't bother them posting up some 10 yard targets with 3 in the A-zone and a shot-timer. 3 "groups" each with the DA pull first and then SA, and then 3 groups with the weapon already cocked so that they are all SA. I'm curious about the splits, and what the groups looked like. Seriously...anyone with a pact game?
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:55 AM
 
3,217 posts, read 1,631,407 times
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My competition IDPA and USPSA gun is a CZ 75 Shadow from the CZ custom shop. I had them do some extra trigger work so that there really isn't much difference between the DA/SA trigger pull.
My splits that were timed this weekend were .25 from first shot to second in DA, and then .20 after that in SA.
I really don't understand people having a problem with DA/SA guns. If you dont want to shoot in DA mode, you never have to. When you chamber a round, you are in SA mode and the only way you have to use DA is if you choose to decock.
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:34 AM
 
361 posts, read 270,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
Another vote for "Go rent some (various) pistols and even revolvers and shoot!" If you are new to the game, this would be a good way to broaden your horizons.

You know, the OP's idea of a 20 gauge shotgun is not a bad one. A good pump 20 with a shorter barrel (most have interchangeable barrels available and swapping out the barrel is a 5-minute job if you take your time) is worth having. Particularly if your wife does not become an enthusiast and shoot regularly, the scattergun is more forgiving of bad technique. That and most thugs will head for the exits when they hear a pump being racked. They know that sound, and they know it means they have bit off more than they can chew. If your wife is smaller, has short arms, a "youth" model 20 may fit her better.

And before anyone says it, yeah, I know that all LEOs, 3-gun competitors, and other serious paladins use a 12, except the few that use a 10 - but for a petite woman, I would think a 20 would be easier to handle, and I know 20's are available in youth models, I have not seen a youth model 12, but there are things out there that I have not seen.

I just wanted to pipe in and offer an unsolicited opinion...............My spouse and I are firearm enthusiasts. We have expensive Italian bullseye pistols, schutzens, Baer 1911's, etc. We fire over 5,000 rounds a year.

Our bedroom HD piece is a 20 gauge Remington 870. IIRC we bought it for $275.00 with a mail-in rebate. I agree with your analysis, I don't think the 20 ga. gets the credit it deserves for home defense purposes.
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Old 04-20-2015, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
13,388 posts, read 42,701,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
I would be very curious to see those who say DA/SA doesn't bother them posting up some 10 yard targets with 3 in the A-zone and a shot-timer. 3 "groups" each with the DA pull first and then SA, and then 3 groups with the weapon already cocked so that they are all SA. I'm curious about the splits, and what the groups looked like. Seriously...anyone with a pact game?
This is very true. One has to train A LOT with a DA/SA to be able to get hits with that first DA shot. This is why Jeff Cooper's 3 approaches that I posted up a few pages back IMHO make sense. Most of these "crunchentickers" as he put it, I like to pull the hammer back while bringing the pistol into firing position.
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:29 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlandochuck1 View Post
My competition IDPA and USPSA gun is a CZ 75 Shadow from the CZ custom shop. I had them do some extra trigger work so that there really isn't much difference between the DA/SA trigger pull.
My splits that were timed this weekend were .25 from first shot to second in DA, and then .20 after that in SA.
I really don't understand people having a problem with DA/SA guns. If you dont want to shoot in DA mode, you never have to. When you chamber a round, you are in SA mode and the only way you have to use DA is if you choose to decock.
Most people don't carry SIG's cocked and locked, and most people don't do much trigger work on a carry gun. I do not shoot any competitive sports, and on a 1/3 reduced 7 yard IPSC target and a Glock 19, my splits were .22-.24. If you are heavy enough into the sports to shoot a modified CZ (typical current "race gun", from what I've seen), and my splits are similar to yours in DA/SA transition, then I can only imagine what it would look like for me. Sure, I have a P226, but it's not what I carry. Training > Gear, but I try not to fight my gear. Just my .02, and it seems like you agree 100% or you wouldn't be having custom work done on your fire control group...
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:46 AM
 
4,755 posts, read 8,380,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Most people don't carry SIG's cocked and locked, and most people don't do much trigger work on a carry gun. I do not shoot any competitive sports, and on a 1/3 reduced 7 yard IPSC target and a Glock 19, my splits were .22-.24. If you are heavy enough into the sports to shoot a modified CZ (typical current "race gun", from what I've seen), and my splits are similar to yours in DA/SA transition, then I can only imagine what it would look like for me. Sure, I have a P226, but it's not what I carry. Training > Gear, but I try not to fight my gear. Just my .02, and it seems like you agree 100% or you wouldn't be having custom work done on your fire control group...
You are over-thinking the trigger issue. It is not an issue at all. We are talking about self defense situation and not the competition where .01 second matter. Taking a life is a serious decision, I would rather have that first DA pull that affirms a conscious action. For majority of HD/ SD, you will be shooting a man within 15 feet, you are not shooting a bullseye 25 yards away. You are in an alert state and your gun would have already been drawn. You will be in a tunnel vision situation and you will not notice whether your first trigger pull is 8-10 lb or a 4-5 lb.

No matter what gun you buy for SD, you will need to practice and know your gun so intimately well that you can touch & operate in the dark. The trigger action will become a part of your muscle memory drilled into you. Eventually it will become your personal preference. For me, I love the SA in a 1911 but I have no trouble hitting a man-size target 15 feet away with my DA revolver. For HD I have my Sig P220 with me. It's a DA/SA with a decocker. It works for me . But if you are a Glock fan boy, it may not be for you.
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Old 04-21-2015, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,773 posts, read 3,676,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HB2HSV View Post
You are over-thinking the trigger issue. It is not an issue at all. We are talking about self defense situation and not the competition where .01 second matter. Taking a life is a serious decision, I would rather have that first DA pull that affirms a conscious action. For majority of HD/ SD, you will be shooting a man within 15 feet, you are not shooting a bullseye 25 yards away. You are in an alert state and your gun would have already been drawn. You will be in a tunnel vision situation and you will not notice whether your first trigger pull is 8-10 lb or a 4-5 lb.

No matter what gun you buy for SD, you will need to practice and know your gun so intimately well that you can touch & operate in the dark. The trigger action will become a part of your muscle memory drilled into you. Eventually it will become your personal preference. For me, I love the SA in a 1911 but I have no trouble hitting a man-size target 15 feet away with my DA revolver. For HD I have my Sig P220 with me. It's a DA/SA with a decocker. It works for me . But if you are a Glock fan boy, it may not be for you.
This. For shooting paper or competition, the difference between the first DA shot and subsequent SA shots is very noticeable. Not in a self defense situation.

The point of DA/SA is so you can carry a hammer-fired weapon very safely and yet still draw and fire instantly. The spring isn't compressed, so assuming it has a basic firing-pin-block safety and you are using a proper holster there is almost zero chance of an ND.

If you are aiming center-mass at an attacker 5-15-ft away the difference in feel between the first shot and last shot will have exactly zero effect.

Kinda like hunting... take a kid to the gun range with a high-power rifle and mostly likely they'll hate the recoil. Take the same kid with the same gun and give them a shot on a deer, and they won't even notice the recoil.
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Old 04-21-2015, 12:29 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,611,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HB2HSV View Post
You are over-thinking the trigger issue. It is not an issue at all. Hence all the special model SIG's with the DAK and other triggers implemented for police use... We are talking about self defense situation and not the competition where .01 second matter. Taking a life is a serious decision, I would rather have that first DA pull that affirms a conscious action. For majority of HD/ SD, you will be shooting a man within 15 feet, you are not shooting a bullseye 25 yards away. You are in an alert state and your gun would have already been drawn. You will be in a tunnel vision situation and you will not notice whether your first trigger pull is 8-10 lb or a 4-5 lb. I'd rather a consistent trigger pull than an ever-changing one. YMMV. I have no need to play that game. I use an M&P.

No matter what gun you buy for SD, you will need to practice and know your gun so intimately well that you can touch & operate in the dark. The trigger action will become a part of your muscle memory drilled into you. Eventually it will become your personal preference. For me, I love the SA in a 1911 but I have no trouble hitting a man-size target 15 feet away with my DA revolver. For HD I have my Sig P220 with me. It's a DA/SA with a decocker. It works for me . But if you are a Glock fan boy, it may not be for you.
Along with the rest of the military and police world, when given a choice, I chose a striker type fired pistol.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:18 PM
 
3,217 posts, read 1,631,407 times
Reputation: 1840
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Most people don't carry SIG's cocked and locked, and most people don't do much trigger work on a carry gun. I do not shoot any competitive sports, and on a 1/3 reduced 7 yard IPSC target and a Glock 19, my splits were .22-.24. If you are heavy enough into the sports to shoot a modified CZ (typical current "race gun", from what I've seen), and my splits are similar to yours in DA/SA transition, then I can only imagine what it would look like for me. Sure, I have a P226, but it's not what I carry. Training > Gear, but I try not to fight my gear. Just my .02, and it seems like you agree 100% or you wouldn't be having custom work done on your fire control group...
Yea, my carry gun is DAO. Kahr Arms CW9. And by the way, this is the gun I timed my splits with in my above post.
I'm not sure what my splits are with my CZ75.
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