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Old 04-17-2015, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
8,861 posts, read 4,829,530 times
Reputation: 7681

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I was looking over a clearance site and came across some Prvi Partizan (some of it, under a buck a round for .308, but that's another topic) and a reviewer was talking about 1/2 inch groups.

Me, I don't think I've shot a bullseye in over 15 years; have only shot silhouettes and what counts to me is that I put the rounds in the paper man and no where else.

Now, I'm not police and certainly not a police sniper, so dead accuracy is not that vital to me. Further, as a civilian shooter, the doctrines of how I am suppose to shoot sort of fit to that of less accuracy. Ie, not shoot to kill but shoot to stop.

So, how important is tightness to you about a particular ammo?
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Old 04-18-2015, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,420,950 times
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Well, if I'm shooting, sa, Springfield, Winchester, etc.. I'm not going to expect the same as if I'm shooting Lake City match grade ammo. I fully believe that if I'm not hitting the bullseye with Lake City, that its me at fault, not the gun or ammo. With Springfield, Winchester, etc... I am never sure I DG its me or the ammo.

In competition I expect to hit the bullseye, every shot (depending on type of match. I compete in 1000, 1250, an SD 1500 yards, so on those I can't expect bulls-eyes) where with factory ammo, I expect a head shot (hand gun) every time, out to 25 yards.
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Old 04-18-2015, 12:21 AM
 
7,282 posts, read 8,385,316 times
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It isn't what someone says they can do, what they say a firearm or ammo will do.

What counts is what you do and if you do the best you can. Everything else really doesn't matter too much.

If you go out and shoot and go back home satisfied, what else matters?
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Old 04-18-2015, 04:09 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
8,861 posts, read 4,829,530 times
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If one is shooting competition (or a police sniper), then the best ammo should be used. As it is, though, I don't (and am not).

Over the years, I have gotten to where I shoot rifle and pistol only standing and when it comes to rifle, then with the sling wrapped around my support arm. I shoot, train that way (such as shoot, break contact, re-establish, shoot, break...) because that is the most my range can allow me to do. But as such, since I am moving (as much as side to side in the stall is), I'm not expecting every round to be in the same hole.

Of course, if I am hitting the paper man, either actual or reduced silhouette, like that standing, then I ought to darn well be able to be hit him prone or kneeling.

I do want my ammo to be of good quality control so the clicks are few and there are no BOOMS. Further, one Malaysian incident (where a partial powder load put the bullet only half way down the barrel) is enough in a lifetime for me.

But flying the same exact trajectory each and every time? Probably not especially since I am only practicing to maintain what I have learned, practicing for scenarios I hope never come true.
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Old 04-18-2015, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
9,796 posts, read 7,111,943 times
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Tight groupings have never been a priority for me but I do try. I have never considered that the ammo could be letting me down when plinking.

If I were hunting or in a situation where accuracy is everything then I would want the best ammo available.

I think for the casual shooter discount ammo is fine.
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Old 04-18-2015, 07:59 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,541,451 times
Reputation: 5210
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
I was looking over a clearance site and came across some Prvi Partizan (some of it, under a buck a round for .308, but that's another topic) and a reviewer was talking about 1/2 inch groups.

Me, I don't think I've shot a bullseye in over 15 years; have only shot silhouettes and what counts to me is that I put the rounds in the paper man and no where else.

Now, I'm not police and certainly not a police sniper, so dead accuracy is not that vital to me. Further, as a civilian shooter, the doctrines of how I am suppose to shoot sort of fit to that of less accuracy. Ie, not shoot to kill but shoot to stop.

So, how important is tightness to you about a particular ammo?


it does not bother me about how tight a bullet is hitting the target, i just want consistency from any cartridge that I buy or make.
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,315,266 times
Reputation: 7232
When I'm shooting paper targets I get pretty hard on myself. That's why sometimes I like to shoot steel reactive targets. There's no "grouping" with those. You just know that you hit the target when it goes "ping" and spins round and round. Those are the most fun to shoot.

But when I'm shooting paper I expect more out of myself than my skills permit. Of course I try and improve my skillset, but by-and-large it's a lot more "fun" to shoot reactive targets where your goal isn't to "group" on a target, but just to hit "a" target.
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:24 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
Reputation: 2654
Out of my M4's, I expect to hold around 1 MOA with MK262. However, for ammunition I select for terminal effectiveness (not a huge fan of 262, although it's put a lot of hajis in the dirt), I have a simple standard:

-Capable of hitting the A-zone of whatever target I am engaging to the maximum envelope of the projectile.

If meaningful expansion stops at 100 yards, and I am shooting deer. Anything in a 8" circle works.
If meaningful expansion results out to 400m, and I am shooting a crow. 2" (0.5MOA) is the standard.

I use 10 shot groups as a measure. Anything less isn't meaningful to me.

For an M4, typically, I accept anything out to about 2.5MOA for bonded/monolithic expanding duty type ammo. I'm not hunting chipmunks with a 64gr bonded bullet. I'm using it for HD, road trips, and deer. And 2.5MOA is fine for all of the above out to 300m.
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Old 04-20-2015, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
13,388 posts, read 42,724,996 times
Reputation: 11470
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
I was looking over a clearance site and came across some Prvi Partizan (some of it, under a buck a round for .308, but that's another topic) and a reviewer was talking about 1/2 inch groups.

Me, I don't think I've shot a bullseye in over 15 years; have only shot silhouettes and what counts to me is that I put the rounds in the paper man and no where else.

Now, I'm not police and certainly not a police sniper, so dead accuracy is not that vital to me. Further, as a civilian shooter, the doctrines of how I am suppose to shoot sort of fit to that of less accuracy. Ie, not shoot to kill but shoot to stop.

So, how important is tightness to you about a particular ammo?
Have you ever thought about hand-loading? Hand-loading can provide as much intrinsic accuracy as you want, at a cost per round mostly below any factory load. You definitely *can* hand-load for military type carbines, you may not get more than 3-4 loads out of a piece of brass depending on chamber dimensions, the load you use, etc. but you can definitely get more than one use out of the most expensive part of the round. Of course, it seems like the hoarders are hitting the loading components as well as ammo - but some day their basement will be slam full and they will stop buying to hoard, I guess!

As to intrinsic accuracy, which is what I think you mean by "tightness", it matters to me to have enough of it for the job at hand. For plinking, particularly from offfhand, I don't need ammo that can stay in MOA from benchrest or prone.
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Old 06-08-2015, 06:52 AM
 
6 posts, read 4,526 times
Reputation: 10
M4 aint got the needed remaining velocity to expand a big game softpoint at 300 yds. even if it did, the velocity/energy would be so low that it would be like shooting the deer with a mag rimfire (at 50 yds). very marginal as to power.. Top velocity from a 14.5" barrel, 5.56 chamber, with a 60 gr bullet is 2800 fps, and that's pushing things really hard. Look up the BC rating of your bullet and you'll see that its velocity will be down below 1800 fps at 300 yds. That's just 400 ft lbs, and adequate expansion/penetration is not likely. You need an exit wound, so as to leave a blood trail and to create a sucking chest wound, which collapses the lung and brings death sooner to the deer.
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