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Old 04-24-2015, 03:32 PM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,776 posts, read 14,134,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
There is no question that we have a right to keep and bear arms....

The real question here is, does the state have enough of an interest in public safety to justify infringing on your Rights by requiring that you undergo a safety course before carrying a firearm?

I'll let each of you answer that for yourselves. No doubt you'll all have different opinions.
Or course you should pass a safety course before legally carrying. That in no way infringes your right to own or bear arms in your home.

Common sense says that only safety trained gun owners should be allowed to carry, but when did common sense ever come into play for many people.
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Old 04-24-2015, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,410,165 times
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That sets limitations on my right. The second does not limit a person simply because you want them to pass a safety course.
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Last edited by ElkHunter; 04-25-2015 at 05:03 PM..
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Old 04-25-2015, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,166 posts, read 27,421,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
That sets limitations on my right. The second does not limit a person simply because you want them to pass a safety course.
Agree with you on this.

It makes sense to learn everything relating to safety of your firearm, how to use them, and so forth, but it should not be mandatory to attend a safety class. An optional safety and training class relating to your individual firearm would be more beneficial.

Last edited by ElkHunter; 04-25-2015 at 05:03 PM..
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Old 04-25-2015, 01:26 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
Agree with you on this.

It makes sense to learn everything relating to safety of your firearm, how to use them, and so forth, but it should not be mandatory to attend a safety class. An optional safety and training class relating to your individual firearm would be more beneficial.
Very true. Fundamentals should be taught at home, and yet, if that doesn't happen, there should be classes available. NOT mandatory.
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Old 04-25-2015, 06:25 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,776 posts, read 14,134,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
Very true. Fundamentals should be taught at home, and yet, if that doesn't happen, there should be classes available. NOT mandatory.
Home schooling is only as good as the person giving the instruction. Unless you are an expert on when it is legal to use lethal force you are passing on wrong information to your children. The whole reason for carrying is for self defence and has nothing to do with operating a gun.Everybody can pull a trigger on a gun and hit something.

Again, when did common sense ever come into play for some gun people?
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Old 04-25-2015, 06:53 AM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
5,933 posts, read 8,496,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
Again, when did common sense ever come into play for some gun people?
Fortunately, a LOT more often than it does for anti-gunners........
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Old 04-25-2015, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,773 posts, read 3,676,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
This backs up one of my arguments about "rights". You have no rights that are guaranteed by God, or by birth, or by Thomas Jefferson. The only rights you have are 1) the rights that society agrees to let you have (our constitution and laws, and more importantly, how both are interpreted by the courts), and/or 2) the rights you claim and can defend for yourself.
Excuse me, but with all due respect, you are completely wrong.
The BoR defines restrictions on the federal government, not the citizens.
Your second sentence is correct, but I am not wrong. By placing those restrictions on the government in the constitution, society has agreed that our government may not restrict the listed rights for our citizens. That doesn't mean the rights are supernatural, just that society has agreed to let you have them.

If you think your right to keep and bear arms is natural or God-given, I challenge you to an experiment. Go to Mexico or Japan or any other similar country, pull out a firearm, and declare your God-given right. See how that goes for you. Our society has that right listed in the BoR and has agreed to protect it for you. Their society doesn't and won't.


Also, most importantly, the BoR was written by men. The court decisions interpreting the BoR were written by men. Therefore either or both can be re-written by men. Or women.

One of the long-term goals of the anti-gunners right now is to get Clinton II in office, get 1-2 Supreme Court Justices appointed, and get D.C. v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago overturned. The original decision was by a 5-4 vote, so it wouldn't be that difficult. Suddenly, the 2A is re-interpreted, and the only way you have a right to firearms is if you are in an official state-sponsored militia. The chances of all this happening is low, but not zero.

An even longer goal is to accumulate enough mass shootings (they redefined the term a few years back to help) and cases where complete idiots like some members of Open Carry Texas to sway public opinion against guns. Spin it so you have normal people on one side and obliviots like these guys on the other. The 18th amendment was repealed. The 2nd can also be repealed by the same process. Again, the chances are extremely low, but not zero.

Last edited by jwkilgore; 04-25-2015 at 08:01 AM..
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Old 04-25-2015, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,773 posts, read 3,676,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
Very true. Fundamentals should be taught at home, and yet, if that doesn't happen, there should be classes available. NOT mandatory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
Home schooling is only as good as the person giving the instruction. Unless you are an expert on when it is legal to use lethal force you are passing on wrong information to your children. The whole reason for carrying is for self defence and has nothing to do with operating a gun.Everybody can pull a trigger on a gun and hit something.
What if the fundamentals taught at home are completely wrong? It still amazes me the completely wrong situations where people I know and love believe they are justified in shooting someone. They think they are already experts, so why should they have to pass a test to prove anything?

The test I'm talking about shouldn't be hard. It would have questions like:
1. You see a man beating a child in a parking lot. You fear for the child's life. Is it legal to shoot the man?
2. You see a woman beating a dog in a back yard. You fear for its life. Is it legal to shoot her?
3. You see a man beating and actively raping a woman in an alley. You fear for her life. Is it legal to shoot him?
4. You are walking alone in town after dark when a two very large men start approaching you from behind. Their hands are empty, but you cannot see their faces. They may intend harm, and you fear for your life. Is it legal to start shooting before they get close enough to grab/hit you?
5. You are in a bank when a robber runs in, pulls a gun, and threatens to shoot the teller. You draw, fire, and hit the robber along with the teller. Are you criminally liable for shooting the teller? Are you financially liable for shooting the teller?

If you can't answer questions like these, perhaps you should reconsider carrying around a loaded firearm.

A while back I attended a dinner/talk sponsored by a local gunshop. Speakers included a former police officer (turned self defense trainer) and a criminal defense lawyer who handles a lot of self-defense cases. Some of the questions at the end displayed an astounding ignorance of self defense law. One older woman was so adamant that she be allowed to shoot anyone who even thought about ringing her doorbell it made me fear for her sanity.

If you truly want to protect your rights as a gun owner, you should be doing everything you can to keep guns away from stupid people. Or at least keeping stupid people from carrying loaded firearms in public.

Last edited by jwkilgore; 04-25-2015 at 08:24 AM..
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Old 04-25-2015, 09:36 AM
 
Location: CasaMo
15,294 posts, read 7,146,445 times
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You see "obliviots".

I see people exercising their rights.

As of late, these grassroots efforts have been extremely effective in a number of states. Since this began, far more states have loosened laws regarding firearms. Texas just happens to be next on the list.

As I said earlier, I don't even carry, but do approve of the actions of this movement because it focuses on not just the 2nd Amendment, but the 4th and 5th as well.

I think the NRA is a butthurt these grassroots movements are more effective than they are.
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Old 04-25-2015, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,166 posts, read 27,421,913 times
Reputation: 11834
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
Home schooling is only as good as the person giving the instruction. Unless you are an expert on when it is legal to use lethal force you are passing on wrong information to your children. The whole reason for carrying is for self defence and has nothing to do with operating a gun.Everybody can pull a trigger on a gun and hit something.

Again, when did common sense ever come into play for some gun people?
The same can be said for a mandatory safety training class. Taking such does not mean that the person will be safer with the use of a firearm.
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