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Old 05-01-2015, 03:56 PM
 
Location: West Madison^WMHT
3,174 posts, read 2,743,911 times
Reputation: 3822

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhounit View Post
Don't laugh , hear me out on this one . .30 Cal Carbine , 15 rd magazine full of Hornady 110 gr FTX Critical Defense ammo . Lightweight , compact , little to no recoil .
If you'd said ball ammo, then I would have had to laugh.

If the administration would allow the re-import of milsurp .30 M1 carbines, they could become a popular choice, once the price comes down.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:37 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,748 posts, read 2,613,181 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
There usually are no car doors involved in home defense, but instead, penetration of sheetrock. Wasn't too long ago, this came up right here on City Data. Pictures were posted of standard 1/2 inch sheetrock backed by blocks of jell. Several pictures posted showed the 00 buck and 000 buck that almost doubled penetration of 9mm and just shy of 5.56. We can argue all week about deflection of the 2x4'd or angle of impact, eyv... but it would be pointless. The 00 buck out performed several rifles and handguns. What is scary is all the people, with kids, that don't understand that and have a 00 shotgun, standing by in the safe, or worse yet, leaning in the corner of the bedroom.
My experience with 00 Buck has been different. It behaves...oddly. Like I said, on flesh it penetrates crazily. On pine 2x6's, I could not get it to penetrate fully ONE board, most of the time, unless at near contact distance where the pellets stacked on each other. 9mm JHP went through 3-4 boards usually, and 5.56 with a bonded round or FMJ would go through 5-8 boards. With something like 60gr VMAX, I got 1-2 boards penetration with the 5.56. Almost any non-fragmenting loading is going to punch at least several sheets of sheetrock.

Honestly, for an apartment, I think 55-60gr VMAX Hornady TAP loadings are a heck of a good choice. Yeah, you won't want to engage a person behind auto glass and yeah, your furniture will stop it dead...even your plush sofa...but if you DO miss the perp, you're going to blow slag and plaster through the wall and not something lethal unless someone has their back/face to the wall on the other side or something.

I'm really torn on what to use, personally, and have stuck with 64gr Gold Dot for my HD loading, even in an apartment, because I believe my walls are brick/cinderblock partition between units, and know they are externally. 5.56 absolutely DIES when it hits a cinderblock. 9mm and 00 probably do, too, but I have not tested them as much on barriers.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:44 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,748 posts, read 2,613,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
That was on brassfetcher.com
If I recall shards of the door were blown deep into the ballistic gel as well. Very devastating home defense round, perfectly capable of stopping an intruder like right now.

Here's one vid going through with a car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG5xbx6O9to
I've shot cars with a lot of stuff, from 00B to a .308. The one thing I can't stress enough...if you're trying to engage someone in a motor vehicle, P for Plenty is the only way to do it. Also, you won't stop the vehicle from functioning in the short-term. Engage the driver. Not the beast itself.
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:31 PM
Status: "Gone hunting until December!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
10,948 posts, read 14,598,176 times
Reputation: 11405
I'm not shooting cars. I use a 12a for home defense. I was just posting up an illustration of brass fetchers tests with 12 ga ballistics. At home defense ranges it will darn near go through anything and possibly pick it up the peices and carry it with it, lol.

You can go to their library and find sheetrock, door and other penetration tests too. I believe they have a 12a through a windshield too.

BTW- I've blasted the s*it out of 2x4's with my 12 ga. Usually when I build a pattern frame and miss the mark, lol. It had full penetration.
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Old 05-02-2015, 01:50 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,748 posts, read 2,613,181 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
I'm not shooting cars. I use a 12a for home defense. I was just posting up an illustration of brass fetchers tests with 12 ga ballistics. At home defense ranges it will darn near go through anything and possibly pick it up the peices and carry it with it, lol.

You can go to their library and find sheetrock, door and other penetration tests too. I believe they have a 12a through a windshield too.

BTW- I've blasted the s*it out of 2x4's with my 12 ga. Usually when I build a pattern frame and miss the mark, lol. It had full penetration.
Interesting. I found in my testing that regular 00 Buck at around 1250fps would not penetrate a car door past 25 yards. #4 Buck wouldn't punch it even at near point blank. 000 Buck was good out to 45-50 yards. 1325fps 00 Buck was good out to 35-40 yards.

Granted, this is just the external part of the door, not even the internal workings and liner.

As to 2x4's, well, who knows? Each 2x4 is different, but I've shot a lot of 'em, and when the pellets impact single-ly, I was not getting penetration reliably until I stepped up to 000 Buck.

One has to understand, 00 Buck is about like a .22LR with the sectional density of a soft lead ball. It's a horrible penetrator of solid objects.

Skip to 2:00 in this video. He was using old lumber, mine was new. BARELY got penetration in his video.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNYiZU4WP6E

Last edited by JWG223; 05-02-2015 at 02:01 AM..
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Old 05-02-2015, 08:50 AM
Status: "Gone hunting until December!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
10,948 posts, read 14,598,176 times
Reputation: 11405
Huh.. I use 3" 00 but that shouldn't make any difference.


Last 4 whities I harvested were taken with 00 buck. 3 dropped immediately, 1 ran about 30 yards.
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Old 05-02-2015, 04:00 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,748 posts, read 2,613,181 times
Reputation: 2654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
Huh.. I use 3" 00 but that shouldn't make any difference.


Last 4 whities I harvested were taken with 00 buck. 3 dropped immediately, 1 ran about 30 yards.
Like I said, it penetrates very well on animals/people.
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Old 05-02-2015, 05:07 PM
Status: "Gone hunting until December!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
10,948 posts, read 14,598,176 times
Reputation: 11405
Exactly- that's why I like it for home defense!
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Old 05-04-2015, 07:01 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,541,451 times
Reputation: 5210
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
I've shot cars with a lot of stuff, from 00B to a .308. The one thing I can't stress enough...if you're trying to engage someone in a motor vehicle, P for Plenty is the only way to do it. Also, you won't stop the vehicle from functioning in the short-term. Engage the driver. Not the beast itself.



last time I shot at a vehicle for practice, my rounds went right through the engine block.

of course i was firing a Barrett 50 BMG too.
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Old 05-06-2015, 12:04 AM
 
108 posts, read 103,236 times
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Go for Shotguns...as “A shotgun at close range will remove meat and bone.” A shotgun loaded with buckshot, preferably #1 buckshot, or 00 buckshot ammunition, is a very effective Stopper.
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