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Old 06-25-2015, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Southeast, where else?
3,914 posts, read 4,009,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restrain View Post
Recommend a handgun, preferably a revolver. Much less chance of a misfire or jam. Also, if you get surprised and a intruder grabs at the gun, you can draw a pistol back to the body, retain control. Someone grabs a shotgun from the side, they have leverage over you. However, staying in a room, covering a door, not moving to engage or clear the house, a shotgun, preferably a pump, allows better standoff, more power to fill the doorway with shot.

Great points. A small revolver (Smith and Wesson 442 for instance) is nearly impossible to wrestle away and is plenty effective. Heck on recoil though. The .410 revolvers are effective and truly do have the "spread" many people envision with a shotgun. The spread is 4 feet at about 5 yards whereas a shotgun is more like 5 inches tops.

In short, those odd revolvers made by Taurus (The Judge) and the Governor (Smith and Wesson) besides being bulky do have a tremendous and QUICK spread of shot in a very, very short range. Take a target like a shoot n' see and you will literally see the pattern. It spreads. Fast. Nothing else I know of spreads as quickly and this is the one gun that can literally say, you don't have to be that perfect of a shot to hit something but, it will help if you train to get most of the shot on target and thus increase the effectiveness of the weapon.

Worst case, it will be like launching a dozen bee stings in a guys face and most probably won't like that. Plus you get 4 more tries at bat. Not bad. They are a bit bulky and not the most pleasant to shoot but, they are shortest legal mini-shotguns I can think of. With the right ammo, they penetration can be sufficient to stop an attacker. Heaviest shot and decent pistol rounds you can handle (hollow points) and that should be sufficient defense. Nice to have a can of pepper spray or two as well handy. Amazing stuff.
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Old 06-25-2015, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Sugarmill Woods , FL
6,235 posts, read 5,389,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
guess you live in a state where castle defense is not allowed. it is more than 7 yards from 1 side of my home to the other.
No, In Florida we sure do have "stand your ground", but I have taken fire arms self defense classes conducted by LEOs and they instill the 7 yard rule. I didn't make up some arbitrary distance this is what IS being taught to keep you out of jail!
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Old 06-26-2015, 04:26 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
I think for most folks, a 20 gauge or even a .410, yes, a .410 would be sufficient.

Why?

A 20 gauge at close range is equally effective and much easier to wield. True, if you can handle a 12 gauge, great. And a good semi-auto in either is now reliable enough to be considered front line. I like a pump for simplicity and reliability but, that's mostly a myth now. The semi-autos are truly good enough from folks like Remington and Mossberg. THE gold plated choice for cost-effective shotguns.

Shot? "Hi-Brass" or #3 buck for .20 or 4 shot for 12 down to SINGLE Ought Buck (1 Buck) is a better choice. That BS about you need double ought or triple ought is just that. Better to create 15 wound channels from single ought than 8 or 9 from double or triple. Remember, people stop due to BLOOD Loss not, how powerful your round is or what you think is the mack daddy round de jour.

Go ahead skippy and pull the trigger on 2 3/4 inch double ought out of your 18 inch shotty and tell me what you think of the recoil. Now, do that in your hallway, late at night, when you are half asleep. Please. Everything that can do a .20 gauge can do equally well. A .410 puts out the equivalent of two (2) 9mm rounds at the same time. Think that won't hurt or, as some might say, is ineffective?
The recoil isn't a big deal to me, and the low-recoil 00 LE loads are really REALLY tame.

Now, let's talk about handling. Swing your 12 gauge around and if you have one, a 20 gauge with an 18 inch barrel or, that ample Mossberg .410 pump. They use to make a defender model in .410 and I used to think it was pretty modest too....until I tested one on 3/4 inch plywood. The .410 offers a slug (basically a .40 S&W), or 3 00 pellets. Neither come close to the 20ga or 12ga.

Remember, your INTERIOR shots are going to typically be 10 yards or less....and usually much less. The .20 and .410 are EXPONENTIALLY easier to wield for MOST people. Let me repeat that before you Yosemite Sam's weigh in. MOST people. Meaning, those that own and rarely practice. Most guys that shoot 12 gauge will have no problem. For those asking for the best (read: beginner)...not so much?
12ga LE low recoil loadings are milder than most 20ga loadings I've fired.

The .20 and 410 are PRACTICAL and EFFICIENT in their design. Easy to wield, will probably not leave you deaf (but, will still leave you hard of hearing for quite some time as will ALL weapons of ANY consequence). They rounds are plenty effective especially at the 20 gauge level. NOT a problem.
I believe they are all +- 165dB, and they all operate at similar chamber pressures.

Now, on to handguns. The .410 Judge (Taurus) and Governor (Smith and Wesson) now shoot .45 Long Colt, .410 Shotshells and .45 ACP (The alleged death ray to everyone that owns one...yawn). And, you can load them up in a mix. Cool. Frankly, I call it the pocket shotgun. To some extent it's true. You could load say, 2 maybe three shotshells (I like the Buck and Ball Combo) and then (IF necessary) expend your last 2-3 rounds (5 total in the cylinder) comprised of either/or .45 Long Colt or .45 ACP. Nice. Those last two rounds however, DO penetrate so if you have kids or a spouse you even marginally care about, think again. It's great for snakes using #9 or something.

The only downside to that is that the shot spreads FAST. Get the 3 inch version (not the 2 1/2 inch) as you want to put as potent a shotshell as possible. Works better in a car jacking situation...it is truly a short range (10 yards or less) weapon and perhaps more like 7 yards/21 feet/ a typical living room/hallway/bedroom/foyer/dining room shot away.....sure....but, it won't penetrate much furniture or walls sooooo, there is a need for a mixed load of shotshells and pistol rounds.

It is a revolver. Nothing to rack. Nothing to load, point/aim and pull trigger. Repeat. Until said threat is eliminated. Contrast that to a shotgun and Biden's ignorant, "just rack it and the boogeyman will run away". If you do that loudly enough, all you will do is tell the bad guy PRECISELY where YOU are and thus politely turn over a slight to severe advantage to said bad guy. Do NOT think racking a shotgun just added super human strength or in some perverse way made all mixed martial wannabe artists in your living room run. You would be a fool to think so. No, racking it just loads it and tells everyone you are trying to get in the fight. Just remember, he's wide awake, you are probably more than half asleep?

Handguns. Do not go and get the dirty harry special. No need for .41 or .44 mags here my friend. Will they work. Overtly. Will you be able to see or hear after the first detonation of a round, hardly. Who knows? Maybe the flames will get him. No, this is an interior affair. Dial it down cowboy. Try something like a 9mm, maybe a .40, a .38, heck even a .380 or .32 (just empty the .32). No need for a .357 although many will now begin to argue that. It does pretty much the same thing the first two will do albeit a bit more controllable but, every bit as blinding and deafening. The problem with "just empty the .32" is that only 1-2 rounds may strike vital structures. Make them count.

To be sure all handguns and guns in general will deafen you to some degree for at least a little while and most produce enough flash to blind most temporarily. All will penetrate walls unless frangible ammo and some hollow points are used so unless you are looking to accidentally-on-purpose dispose of your family members, ease up.

For this guy? The judge/governor is a choice, a .38 snubbie, a .20 gauge or .410 gauge pump or semi-auto is in line. They are cheap, effective, and the user can gain good enough skill to not soil his pants or kill family members or neighbors in his first tryout. ANY of those will be sufficient.

No absolute need for a .12 gauge, AR, AK, Bazooka (.44), .41, .357 long barrel, claymores, teller mines, nukes, flame throwers, or heavy machine guns. The aforementioned will kill/maim bingo and zippy equally well.

Let's leave it at that.

Your whole post is a massive endorsement for a suppressed M4 type rifle.

It addresses your fears of:

-Overpenetration in a house
-Sound/short and long-term damage to auditory
-Capacity
-Terminal effect
-Ease of aiming/use
-Recoil
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Old 06-26-2015, 04:33 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,747 posts, read 2,613,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restrain View Post
Recommend a handgun, preferably a revolver. Much less chance of a misfire or jam. Also, if you get surprised and a intruder grabs at the gun, you can draw a pistol back to the body, retain control. Someone grabs a shotgun from the side, they have leverage over you. However, staying in a room, covering a door, not moving to engage or clear the house, a shotgun, preferably a pump, allows better standoff, more power to fill the doorway with shot.

This is why I run a sling on my long-arms. If you grab the barrel, I'm going to quickly fill you with holes. If you grab the side, somehow ambushing me because I was careless, well then I know 1) You are unarmed (or you would have shot/stabbed me), and 2), I just let you have the weapon. It's on a sling, and there is no physical way you will point it at me because of this and the physics involved (a properly slung rifle cannot be pointed at the user very well because you cannot pull it far enough FROM the user to turn the barrel on them.). While you're grabbing at my rifle, I'm going hands-on with your face or whatever seems best at the time. You then have a choice: Give me back my rifle and get shot, or keep screwing around with my rifle pumping rounds into dry-wall if it excites you while I continue to work on you with my hands.
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Old 06-26-2015, 05:09 PM
 
785 posts, read 616,204 times
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Best Defense, from the female perspective:

1. Wear a "no-fear" shirt for starters. The minute you start to get whiny, you lose. At least until the police get there, You have to convince yourself you are a few notches crazier than the person(s) breaking into your house.

2. Have a big dog or at least a dog that will alert you. If they get past my big dogs, I will be waiting.

3. "I will be waiting". Let the noise come to you, never go to the noise. Most of us women don't have near the the cubic inches, in our arms, those ***holes have. Wait quietly, with gun aimed at the doorway. Guts, nuts, brains, doesn't matter, they broke into your home

4. Coming from a farm and hunting family, guns have always been a way of life for me. IMO, Don't over gun yourself, buy something you know you can shoot without bruising your forehead with it and that doesn't intimidate you. My pistol is only a five shot, if I can't get them bleeding in five shots, I'll throw the gun down and give up.

5. My weapon of choice is simple, a .38 snub with hollow points. It's small enough to carry when I ride my horse alone. It's easily accessible, perish the thought, someone would break in. thankfully that has never happened. I once had two drunken friends bang on the door, and the windows thinking they were cute. boy did they regret that but it did tell me what I am really capable of in that kind of situation.
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Old 06-29-2015, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
2,122 posts, read 1,443,591 times
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IMO, one needs a handgun/revolver which can be carried on his body at home (any caliber/model as long as it's not .22) for inside of your home.

And, a long gun for discouraging criminals coming to your home from a far. My choice would be a cheap SKS (since it has permanently affixed bayonet and hard stock - for when you're out of rounds), not an expensive and fancy AR14.
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Old 06-29-2015, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,773 posts, read 3,678,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restrain View Post
Recommend a handgun, preferably a revolver. Much less chance of a misfire or jam. Also, if you get surprised and a intruder grabs at the gun, you can draw a pistol back to the body, retain control. Someone grabs a shotgun from the side, they have leverage over you. However, staying in a room, covering a door, not moving to engage or clear the house, a shotgun, preferably a pump, allows better standoff, more power to fill the doorway with shot.
Whether intentional or not, this statement adds to a TOTALLY FALSE myth about shotguns; the "you don't have to aim because the shot spreads" myth. Typical buckshot from a short (18-20") home defense cylinder-bore (no choke) barrels spread at about 1" per yard. So at 7 yards, or 21-ft (across a long interior room or down a hallway) your pattern will be approximately 7" diameter. Hardly "door filling", and you most definitely have to aim. And if any of the pellets miss the target because you didn't aim, remember that 00Buck will go through gyp-board interior walls and even wood exterior walls like a hot knife through butter.
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Old 06-29-2015, 08:36 PM
 
7,325 posts, read 3,751,797 times
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Best home defense...Really good door locks.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
2,122 posts, read 1,443,591 times
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A friend of mine has 4 dogs - 3 GSDs and a little behemot of unknown breed. All dogs live inside the house. Them don't need no gun to defend themselves in the house for sure...
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Old 06-30-2015, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,594 posts, read 9,427,321 times
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Here in Oregon we have a couple of people in a LOT of trouble because they fired shots out their doors and windows at 'noises'... and killed people. Innocent people from the looks of it. Good use of a gun, and probably the best way to deploy lethal force. When the #$%# isn't expecting it. By the time he is inside choking you, it is really too late. I really don't get all the excitement about handguns... or rifles for that matter. I didn't check. How many of you have actually killed someone with your weapons? More to the point, how many of you have successfully defended yourself from a situation that took place while you were at the dinnertable? Asleep? Not many I know. The numbers are in, and the numbers do not lie. 2% of home invasions are thwarted by the homeowners weapon. That's all. 2%. Most people aren't sociopaths that wear shoulder holsters at the dinner table or to bed! In most states you cannot fire your weapon through the door at a "noise". It could be a Jehovahs Witness come to spread the Gospel. Stop with the rah rah .357 this and .44 Magnum that. You aren't all really that stupid.

Good locks and good dogs is very good home defense. If you need more, you need a better neighborhood more than you need a Winchester. Period. Elsewhere, good sense and situational awareness work much better than firearms. The guy in Florida did NOT use good sense in challenging THUGS because he had a gun. He had lead courage instead of brains. Now he sits in a jail cell. He will lose his woman, if he hasn't lost her already, he has lost his employment. Probably his home. Everything that matters.
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