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Old 07-29-2015, 03:55 PM
 
286 posts, read 196,171 times
Reputation: 242

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so you "think" that nobody would commit a crime if they didn't have a gun? Most attacks are not made with guns, did you know that? A 200 lb, strong man can break the typical woman's neck with one twist of his wrist, if he gets a handful of her hair, in the right place. You never heard of strangulation, stabbings, clubbings?
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Old 07-29-2015, 03:58 PM
 
286 posts, read 196,171 times
Reputation: 242
I suggest an airsoft gun and a good coach. You'll save a lot of time and money that way. .22lr ammo is hard to find and 15c per rd. Are you going to concealed carry your gun? if not, you probably won't have it when you need it. Will you wear it, keep it in a fannypack, or what? Size and weight of the pistol matter in some cases, in others, not so much. Once you truly can handle the use of cover and a light, hit movers, while you're moving, etc, with airsoft, you'll be in a much better position to choose the real gun that you want/need. Airsoft is 1/2c per shot, can be done right in your home. With throat/face protection, you can learn a lot, with airsoft, man vs man training, that simply can't be learned with live ammo.
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Old 07-29-2015, 05:21 PM
 
17,934 posts, read 9,859,202 times
Reputation: 17422
Quote:
Originally Posted by zonest View Post
I suggest an airsoft gun and a good coach. You'll save a lot of time and money that way. .22lr ammo is hard to find and 15c per rd. Are you going to concealed carry your gun? if not, you probably won't have it when you need it. Will you wear it, keep it in a fannypack, or what? Size and weight of the pistol matter in some cases, in others, not so much. Once you truly can handle the use of cover and a light, hit movers, while you're moving, etc, with airsoft, you'll be in a much better position to choose the real gun that you want/need. Airsoft is 1/2c per shot, can be done right in your home. With throat/face protection, you can learn a lot, with airsoft, man vs man training, that simply can't be learned with live ammo.
I'm not a big fan of airsoft training unless it's being done by the same organization that teaches genuine combat pistolcraft. Otherwise, it's too easy to gain "negative training" playing games with toys.
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Old 07-29-2015, 05:35 PM
 
286 posts, read 196,171 times
Reputation: 242
Did you read the part of my post where I said "a good coach" was part of what's needed? You'l learn MORE "negative stuff" with live ammo, cause you can't shoot at each other with it, but you can do so with airsoft. When you aint got ear protection (and you're being attacked) about 90% of that practice-range accuracy (with firearms) will be gone. Nobody wants to admit that, but it's a fact. So a helluva lot of what's taught is bs, cause the accuracy to do those things just won't be present, on a reliable basis.

Half of the shots in handgun combat (average range 10 ft) misses the vitals, and at least half of said misses the entire man when the distance is 5 yds or further, even in good light and with the guy not moving. yet how many of these wonderful "schools/trainers' restrict their firing to 10 ft and less? How many teach hand to hand moves at arm's length (since it's a lot faster than a ccw draw and hit)? Almost nobody, that's how many. Shooting instructors don't want you practicing by yourself, at home, out of books, with videos and an Airsoft gun. How can they make any money off of you if you do that?


Quite a few people in the past trained themselves. Who taught Ad Topperwein, or Annie Oakley? How about Ed MCgivern, Jeff Cooper, Elmer Keith, or Bill Jordan? The fact is, most of the time, you don't even have to fire, as long as you get your gun noticed in time, from far enough away. Most attacks are not made with a gun. Misses have changed a lot of minds, too. Range practice doesn't make you really fast with the CCW draw (which is mostly what is required, if hand to hand stuff aint enough/preferable). Dryfire and airsoft do that speed building, in front of a mirror.

Many revered Elmer Keith's defensive gun "advice", when he'd never so much as pointed a gun at anyone in his entire life. He said so in his book. He also never had a gun pointed at him. Bill Jordan "thought" that you should aim for the gut, even with .38 lrn. He "thought" that a swc in a 9mm was an adequately effective load, too. He also favored a dead-loose holster, with an exposed trigger guard, and taught you to start pulling the trigger while the gun was still holstered. :-) Yet he was a sought after "trainer".
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Old 07-30-2015, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Vermont
5,439 posts, read 14,339,187 times
Reputation: 2609
.22LR is definitely not as intense.

I'd get a Ruger SR22 or M&P 22 or M&P22 Compact.
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Old 07-30-2015, 01:42 PM
 
286 posts, read 196,171 times
Reputation: 242
again, better find at least 5000 rds of .22lr ammo and have it in HAND before you buy a .22lr gun, cause you won't be training with it when you lack ammo, and .22lr ammo is quite hard to find, still, most everywhere. You have to dig it up, here and there, a bit at a time, online. and you'll have to pay at least 12c per rd for it, too.
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Old 07-30-2015, 02:21 PM
 
73 posts, read 65,735 times
Reputation: 105
The only hand gun I have owned was a Brazilian-made Taurus 38 "police special" and as a rural restaurant owner had a Concealed Carry Permit. It never misfired on the range and fit easily in my coat pocket. I recall getting my "Carry" permit. It was frightening to see the long line of people at the Seattle Public Safety (misnomer) Building who were getting Concealed Carry Permits, most of whom could not speak standard English and I suspect had no bona fide reason for needing such a permit. The laws are stricter now. I had "liberal" qualms about owing a firearm. And to my surprise, owning a pistol and carrying it on my person reinforced my belief that firearms should be only for the military and police. Why? Two Reasons: First of all I took a gun class and went to a local firing range to become acquainted with my piece. As I shot the paper targets, I thought to myself "once I pull the trigger it's a done deal. There is no calling the bullet back. It is a one-way decision and it is irreversible. The responsibility is enormous and a minor error in judgement can cause death--maybe to the wrong person. Oops, sorry! I have been robbed at gun point and wondered, had I been armed, would I have drawn my weapon and nailed the robber. Probably not. Reason two: My mental state changed when I was carrying in public. I felt a (false?) sense of power and at some level I wanted a situation to arise so I could test that power. Would I be stopped under the viaduct at night by Knife-wielding assailants? I sort of wished I would so I could become Schwartzenegger, Bronson or Dirty Harry. It may sound absurd, but I think some gun-carriers get a macho aura and begin to take the attitude "Come on and mess with me, I'll blow your brains out". In truth, a true killer has the advantage, and a gun-to-gun shoot out favors the bad guy--unless you're badder. So I sold my gun and now keep a tire iron under my car seat and a commando knife by my bedside.
Advice on what gun to buy. If you must have a gun, get a semi-compact revolver. The big units are heavy and harder to handle. A revolver allows you to see if it's loaded and it's more dependable than a semi-automatic. .22 caliber is too small to stop an assailant who is really motivated to hurt you. 38-40 caliber is minimum, .45 is pretty big. Don't spend a fortune. Go to a reputable gun seller and look at their used inventory. $200 buys a respectable brand name used revolver. Good luck and Happy Trails.
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Old 07-30-2015, 03:53 PM
 
286 posts, read 196,171 times
Reputation: 242
A decent revolver can handle the job, since only rarely need the civilian defender even fire a shot, much less hit anybody, much less many times hit 2 or more people. I detest revolvers, actually, but they CAN (and do) suffice, every day in this country, many times per day.
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Old 08-01-2015, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
2,123 posts, read 1,446,040 times
Reputation: 2325
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambrichard View Post
The only hand gun I have owned was a Brazilian-made Taurus 38 "police special" and as a rural restaurant owner had a Concealed Carry Permit. It never misfired on the range and fit easily in my coat pocket. I recall getting my "Carry" permit. It was frightening to see the long line of people at the Seattle Public Safety (misnomer) Building who were getting Concealed Carry Permits, most of whom could not speak standard English and I suspect had no bona fide reason for needing such a permit. The laws are stricter now. I had "liberal" qualms about owing a firearm. And to my surprise, owning a pistol and carrying it on my person reinforced my belief that firearms should be only for the military and police. Why? Two Reasons: First of all I took a gun class and went to a local firing range to become acquainted with my piece. As I shot the paper targets, I thought to myself "once I pull the trigger it's a done deal. There is no calling the bullet back. It is a one-way decision and it is irreversible. The responsibility is enormous and a minor error in judgement can cause death--maybe to the wrong person. Oops, sorry! I have been robbed at gun point and wondered, had I been armed, would I have drawn my weapon and nailed the robber. Probably not. Reason two: My mental state changed when I was carrying in public. I felt a (false?) sense of power and at some level I wanted a situation to arise so I could test that power. Would I be stopped under the viaduct at night by Knife-wielding assailants? I sort of wished I would so I could become Schwartzenegger, Bronson or Dirty Harry. It may sound absurd, but I think some gun-carriers get a macho aura and begin to take the attitude "Come on and mess with me, I'll blow your brains out". In truth, a true killer has the advantage, and a gun-to-gun shoot out favors the bad guy--unless you're badder. So I sold my gun and now keep a tire iron under my car seat and a commando knife by my bedside.
Advice on what gun to buy. If you must have a gun, get a semi-compact revolver. The big units are heavy and harder to handle. A revolver allows you to see if it's loaded and it's more dependable than a semi-automatic. .22 caliber is too small to stop an assailant who is really motivated to hurt you. 38-40 caliber is minimum, .45 is pretty big. Don't spend a fortune. Go to a reputable gun seller and look at their used inventory. $200 buys a respectable brand name used revolver. Good luck and Happy Trails.
So, you admit that you had "come and mess with me" attitude, yet you haven't shoot anyone. But nonetheless, you believe other people are much more stupid and would definitely get themselves in trouble. But have you ever considered the possibility that having that attitude is not a positive sign itself and maybe you above all should not have concealed carry permit?
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Old 08-02-2015, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Kirkland, WA (Metro Seattle)
3,439 posts, read 2,823,251 times
Reputation: 5913
Hmm. Context of OP's statements is disturbing, in totality. And some of the replies...ye gods. "Get an AR," indicate several. Others go on about 357 Magnums. Remainder going down rabbit holes about this, that, and the other specific pistol type/caliber. Think I can help summarize: OP wouldn't know combat mindset (engaging in a deadly force confrontation to win) from third base, folks.

Perhaps I'm the only one who took a moment to read the OP's other posts. Lastest indicate "depression and anxiety problems," "intimidation" (by big scary old UPS trainees, apparently), and "on antidepressants due to unemployment." Seriously. How about instead a little judgement and tough love based on experience: a gun is in all probability the last thing this person needs right now. That's an opinion, and worth to OP exactly what it cost him, but it's sincere on my part and I'm all for exercising 2nd Amendment rights...using common sense. Four pages of replies, several quite lucid and rational, and not one response from OP. Hmm. He'd be hugely better served by investing $300 in an iPhone 6 with "911" on speed dial instead. And/or a good pair of Nikes, to RUN the the other way. That's gotten me out of a few jams in life!

I've (legally, often) carried a custom 1911, Commander-size, for years, built to my specs by a 'smith in Colorado. That is what works for me, and it took decades to figure out my personal self defense paradigm in various situations. I've spent twice that much time and money on training across several decades. Mindset and attitude first, combined with training. Pass all that? Then focus on specific tools of the trade.
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