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Old 01-29-2018, 07:52 AM
 
8,742 posts, read 12,958,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Go back and read it again. His descriptions for the Glock 19, GP100, and the shotgun could be applied to ANY semi auto, DA revolver, and semi auto shotgun. He didn’t address the specifics of the particular weapons at all.
Are we reading the same article?

He did not address “other brands” that are just as good, if not better, than the one he’s mentioned. He did not caveated other models other than his “best”. Interestly he used a generic term “AR15” rather than a specific brand but in other 4 choices they were pretty specific, e.g., Glock 19. This is what I criticize him for.

 
Old 01-29-2018, 08:44 AM
 
10,732 posts, read 5,664,235 times
Reputation: 10863
Quote:
Originally Posted by HB2HSV View Post
Are we reading the same article?

He did not address “other brands” that are just as good, if not better, than the one he’s mentioned. He did not caveated other models other than his “best”. Interestly he used a generic term “AR15” rather than a specific brand but in other 4 choices they were pretty specific, e.g., Glock 19. This is what I criticize him for.
Perhaps I didn't clearly communicate my point. Here is a quote from the article (with the name of the weapon redacted:

Quote:
The XXX handgun is slightly smaller than the original XXX, making it an excellent choice for home defense. The XXX has a slightly shorter barrel than the XXX, with a slightly smaller magazine capacity, but is less obtrusive and easier to conceal in a gun safe. As a handgun, the XXX is easier to maneuver through close indoor confines than a long gun. The recoil of a XXX pistol is very manageable and easier to keep the muzzle on target in stressful situations. A XXX with a flashlight attachment and specialized self-defense rounds such as 147 grain Federal HST will quickly and reliably put down a threat.
While the above is from the article's description of the Glock 19, you could put in the name of ANY semi auto pistol and it would still work. There is nothing in the above description that relates specifically to the G19. And the articles descriptions of the Ruger revolver and the Beretta shotgun are the same way.

The highlighted portion above makes it clear the author is not someone that we should pay attention to when he writes about small arms.
 
Old 01-29-2018, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,230 posts, read 18,571,948 times
Reputation: 25799
An AR-15 SBR, suppressed in 300 BLK would be my top choice. However, I do not have one. I currently use a USGI M1 Carbine for home defense, as well as a CZ-75, 9mm pistol. The only think I use my shotgun for is bird hunting.
 
Old 01-30-2018, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
3,683 posts, read 9,860,012 times
Reputation: 3016
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperL View Post
An AR platform in any chambering is going to go thru walls, lots of walls.
That's what I thought too until I did a little reading.

Google "5.56 drywall penetration test" and you'll see that in pretty much every test comparing handgun rounds against 5.56, the handgun rounds penetrate more sheets of drywall, or penetrate further into the ballistic gel after going through an identical number of sheet of drywall. For instance:



You'll also see that in some tests, the light 55 grain rifle rounds start tumbling after the first sheet of drywall and are going through sideways as early as the second sheet of drywall.
 
Old 01-30-2018, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,884 posts, read 10,972,072 times
Reputation: 14180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediocreButArrogant View Post
That's what I thought too until I did a little reading.

Google "5.56 drywall penetration test" and you'll see that in pretty much every test comparing handgun rounds against 5.56, the handgun rounds penetrate more sheets of drywall, or penetrate further into the ballistic gel after going through an identical number of sheet of drywall. For instance:



You'll also see that in some tests, the light 55 grain rifle rounds start tumbling after the first sheet of drywall and are going through sideways as early as the second sheet of drywall.
Not really a valid test, IMO. Well, OK, perhaps valid for uninsulated walls, but not necessarily for walls having 3.5 or 5.5 inches of insulation. The type of insulation may have an effect, as well. Would foam-in-place be different from fiberglass batts? What about walls made from 5/8 inch fire resistant dry-wall?
There are many variables in construction that simply were not addressed.
 
Old 01-30-2018, 09:30 AM
 
8,742 posts, read 12,958,286 times
Reputation: 10526
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Perhaps I didn't clearly communicate my point. Here is a quote from the article (with the name of the weapon redacted:



While the above is from the article's description of the Glock 19, you could put in the name of ANY semi auto pistol and it would still work. There is nothing in the above description that relates specifically to the G19. And the articles descriptions of the Ruger revolver and the Beretta shotgun are the same way.

The highlighted portion above makes it clear the author is not someone that we should pay attention to when he writes about small arms.
That is YOUR interpretation. Not sure a novice gun buyer will equate this.


My opinion stands.
 
Old 01-30-2018, 09:59 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,158 posts, read 15,623,058 times
Reputation: 17149
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediocreButArrogant View Post
That's what I thought too until I did a little reading.

Google "5.56 drywall penetration test" and you'll see that in pretty much every test comparing handgun rounds against 5.56, the handgun rounds penetrate more sheets of drywall, or penetrate further into the ballistic gel after going through an identical number of sheet of drywall. For instance:



You'll also see that in some tests, the light 55 grain rifle rounds start tumbling after the first sheet of drywall and are going through sideways as early as the second sheet of drywall.

There is ammunition available for both rifle and handgun platforms that is specifically designed for home defense use and will break up on drywall such as Hornady TAP and Glaser Safety Slug. The Glaser has been around a long time and is generally well regarded as a defensive round.
Still, anytime you're talking about use of a firearm inside a dwelling there is going to be concern for over penetration and going through walls endangering other occupants.


The article in the link brings up an age old "which one is best" for (insert given purpose) where firearms choice is concerned. There is no right or wrong answer to this question but nevertheless it has sparked heated debate and even scathing argument time and again.


There are an infinite number of factors that go into a decision for a particular firearm for a particular use. There is no one size fits all. The firearms listed in the article are common platforms used by a great many people. The AR is very commonly used in defensive roles, but it's certainly not the best choice for everyone.


Many people who might have need of a firearm for defense have physical limitations that preclude picking any of the platforms in the article. So all in all there really isn't any basis for argument here. Discussion, individual choices and the factors effecting those choices yes, but there isn't any right or wrong. What works for one won't work for another.
 
Old 01-30-2018, 06:17 PM
 
10,732 posts, read 5,664,235 times
Reputation: 10863
Quote:
Originally Posted by HB2HSV View Post
That is YOUR interpretation. Not sure a novice gun buyer will equate this.


My opinion stands.
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. We're arguing the same thing.
 
Old 01-30-2018, 06:58 PM
 
1,095 posts, read 1,056,059 times
Reputation: 2616
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
Yes, a shotgun is ideal for home defense. All the members of your household can display the positive force to discourage an intruder then back it up (God forbid!) with force to stop an intruder if need be.

All of the people will say buy a 12 ga. but I believe a good 20 ga.double barrel , or a pump, is better for women to handle. Load them with heavy loads to maximize the stopping power.

I don't like pistols for home defense since it takes to much practice to use any pistol with any skill at all.

I can't imagine any intruder who sees a double barrel ,or hears the racking of a pump, will stick around to find out if you mean business.
 
Old 01-30-2018, 10:13 PM
 
1,433 posts, read 1,062,375 times
Reputation: 3748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired in Illinois View Post
Yes, a shotgun is ideal for home defense. All the members of your household can display the positive force to discourage an intruder then back it up (God forbid!) with force to stop an intruder if need be.

All of the people will say buy a 12 ga. but I believe a good 20 ga.double barrel , or a pump, is better for women to handle. Load them with heavy loads to maximize the stopping power.

I don't like pistols for home defense since it takes to much practice to use any pistol with any skill at all.

I can't imagine any intruder who sees a double barrel ,or hears the racking of a pump, will stick around to find out if you mean business.

You're close but a 12 ga pistol grip shotgun or a Mossberg Shockwave with a laser/light combo using Aguila Minishells is the best home defense weapon anyone can have & have low recoil/easy to shoot (and esp. good for a woman). Those shells (buckshot or slugs) are lower velocity/less penetration but still pack a wallop at close range....also, you can almost double the capacity in a shotgun due to the shorter size.

For handgun can't beat a .40 cal Glock.....trigger safety is perfect for home defense situation and the weight/recoil is perfect.
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