U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Hobbies and Recreation > Guns and Hunting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-24-2018, 03:24 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,112 posts, read 858,540 times
Reputation: 1130

Advertisements

The plot thickens...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-24-2018, 06:18 AM
 
Location: The Commonwealth of Virginia
598 posts, read 311,782 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
There is a "Registry" of transferable machineguns. If a gun isn't currently on the Registry, there is no way to add it, unless the BATF declares a limited amnesty period, as they did prior to the implementation of the GCA '68.
That explains why my neighbor talked about buying one of these weapons as an "investment." Assuming Congress doesn't change the law, these weapons should only go up in value. And it would be a pretty cool investment to own.


--
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2018, 06:51 AM
Status: "Rocktober...well that was fast. :-(" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,298 posts, read 10,450,237 times
Reputation: 13244
As weird as this sounds, I'm actually relieved to learn some of the emerging details not disclosed in the initial rounds of stories. I still maintain gun owners have to be squeaky clean these days, but it's good to know this doesn't appear to be a radical judge just wanting to make an example out of someone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2018, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Arizona, The American Southwest
51,062 posts, read 29,141,449 times
Reputation: 90150
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
Thoughts on this?

Those of us who are gun enthusiasts have a healthy respect for gun laws. I seriously question what problem the ATF solved with this one though. The guy purchased the weapon in the early 1980s, and apparently the serial number was scratched off. That's illegal (and I assume it was back in the early 1980s). Owning a fully automatic is only illegal if done without the appropriate license (a detail the linked story fails to acknowledge, nor does it address if this veteran, described as a "collector" has said license).

I am also a little disturbed at the timing of the raid and the probable cause for said raid. The timing is purely emotional. Two weeks after the man's wife passed away is certainly not law enforcement's problem but that should have definitely been considered at sentencing and it does not appear to have been. But the bigger issue to me is what prompted the raid to begin with? Did someone share with authorities that this individual was in possession of a weapon that had been rendered illegal? And if that's the case was that all it took to convince a federal judge there was probable cause enough to authorize the raid? Seems like a pretty low threshold (read: "nonexistent threshold") for probable cause. Again, I have to wonder what problem the ATF solved here.

Sure, the weapon is illegal. It's a safe guess the guy knew this and took a risk he shouldn't have taken. But collectors keeping a weapon like this in a case for sentimental reasons are not the threat that justify the laws on the books. From what I've been able to discern this guy was a solid citizen outside of this gun purchase.

If the ATF had been trying to locate this weapon and somehow traced it to him, that's great. But a 7 year sentence seems absurd. Owning a weapon that has the serial number scratched off is against the law so I can definitely understand seizure of the property, and perhaps a fine and/or probation. But a 70 year old who is a decorated veteran and from the sound of it kept the weapon in a display case...a 7 year sentence makes me question the sentencing judge's discernment. Again I ask, what problem did this federal judge solve with her ruling?

I think the lesson to be had here is even in an era where jurisdictions at all levels selectively enforce their own laws, violations of gun laws are going to be crushed. Legal gun owners have zero margin for error, and no matter how clean your nose may be, if you make the slightest mistake you will be shown no mercy in the courts.

Be smart, everyone. And please, if I'm missing something about this guy I'd love to know more. I've searched a few different articles now for any hint that maybe he isn't the upstanding citizen he appears to be but haven't found anything to indicate as much.


The story:


https://www.foxnews.com/us/vietnam-w...urchase-report
I'm not going to say much about this, but if Pick purchased the fully automatic weapon in the early 1980s, that's not an offense, I know there are new requirements that have been implemented later in the 1980s for individuals to own such weapons, which frankly I'm not too familiar with because I don't have a need to own a fully automatic M1-A/M-14 or AR-15/M-16.

In my opinion, the seven-year prison sentence for this veteran was too harsh, especially when no violent offenses were committed with the rifle. About the only offenses that I see is the serial number that was scratched off, and the possession of illegal drugs. I also read that he admitted stealing the weapon while he was in the military. Also, and I hate to say this, but with the mention of Pick's mental condition that was reported by his own daughter, and the threats that he allegedly made, I think keeping the weapons away from him would have been a more suitable sentence. Whether or not they prevented another mass shooting remains to be determined, we'll never know, but it's better to be safe than sorry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2018, 12:33 PM
 
5,221 posts, read 2,378,942 times
Reputation: 5111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Mike View Post
I'm not going to say much about this, but if Pick purchased the fully automatic weapon in the early 1980s, that's not an offense, I know there are new requirements that have been implemented later in the 1980s for individuals to own such weapons, which frankly I'm not too familiar with because I don't have a need to own a fully automatic M1-A/M-14 or AR-15/M-16.

The only difference pre and post 1986 is that post 1986, the only guns available to be purchased were those that had been manufactured prior to 1986, AND were included in the Registry. Other than that, the laws and requirements were unchanged.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2018, 01:18 PM
 
8,716 posts, read 8,919,801 times
Reputation: 12189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
If you believe that I am incorrect, then by all means, educate us, and explain precisely what “license” one must possess in order to own a full auto weapon.
Here, in the crappy state of MA, a specific license is required in addition to all the other typical NFA paperwork even if using a Trust/LLC.

Quote:
140 MGL 131(o)

(o) No person shall be issued a license to carry or possess a machine gun in the commonwealth, except that a licensing authority or the colonel of state police may issue a machine gun license to:
(i) a firearm instructor certified by the municipal police training committee for the sole purpose of firearm instruction to police personnel;
(ii) a bona fide collector of firearms upon application or upon application for renewal of such license.
Here's the application for one. Getting one? Ha, Good luck

http://goal.org/Documents/Resident_L...n_20100315.pdf

Last edited by BostonMike7; 10-25-2018 at 01:29 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2018, 01:36 PM
 
5,221 posts, read 2,378,942 times
Reputation: 5111
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonMike7 View Post
Here, in the crappy state of MA, a specific license is required in addition to all the other typical NFA paperwork even if using a Trust/LLC.



Here's the application for one. Getting one? Ha, Good luck

http://goal.org/Documents/Resident_L...n_20100315.pdf

If you've spent much time in the Guns/Hunting portion of CD, you'd understand that a discussion of gun laws generally centers around Federal law, as state laws can certainly differ. I have been discussing Federal law.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-25-2018, 06:36 PM
 
8,716 posts, read 8,919,801 times
Reputation: 12189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
If you've spent much time in the Guns/Hunting portion of CD, you'd understand that a discussion of gun laws generally centers around Federal law, as state laws can certainly differ. I have been discussing Federal law.
In that case, I agree with your points 100%. Carry on sir
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2018, 01:06 PM
 
11,571 posts, read 17,501,153 times
Reputation: 17221
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeGer View Post
The plot thickens...
Indeed it does. The serial number scratched off is a giveaway that it was stolen.
If this dude wanted an M14 as a collector you get one with a semi-automatic receiver if you didn't want to undergo the trouble of getting the proper licenses. I have an M16, retro late 60s vietnam-era Colt A2 all the way...except for the semi-auto receiver/lower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Mike View Post
I'm not going to say much about this, but if Pick purchased the fully automatic weapon in the early 1980s, that's not an offense, I know there are new requirements that have been implemented later in the 1980s for individuals to own such weapons, which frankly I'm not too familiar with because I don't have a need to own a fully automatic M1-A/M-14 or AR-15/M-16.
Automatic weapons in the US have been regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2018, 10:23 PM
 
5,221 posts, read 2,378,942 times
Reputation: 5111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Indeed it does. The serial number scratched off is a giveaway that it was stolen.
If this dude wanted an M14 as a collector you get one with a semi-automatic receiver if you didn't want to undergo the trouble of getting the proper licenses.
Again, no license required (under Federal law).

Quote:
I have an M16, retro late 60s vietnam-era Colt A2 all the way...except for the semi-auto receiver/lower.
Thats not an M-16.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Hobbies and Recreation > Guns and Hunting
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top