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You either are not seeing the point, or choose not to see the point.
You CANNOT go out there and picket and yell and scream and put teabags on your head and claim you want the government out of your life and want less government spending, but then go and vehemently defend spending billions upon billions on a part of the government
Actually yes you can. Here is a real life example:
I can say that I want to reduce my overall monthly expenditures (analogous to reducing govt spending) by getting a less expensive car (cutting social programs) and eating out less (reducing subsidies) while living in the same house (maintaining military budget). Just because I don't want to reduce my expenditures on my house, it does not make me a hypocrite for claiming that my overall spending each month is too big. It just means that I want to spend less in certain areas and maintain it in others. You may disagree with their implementation, but you cannot assume someone is a hypocrite simply because they simultaneously want to reduce the size of the government and still support one aspect of the government (in this case the military). It just isn't the case.
You are letting your personal biases cloud your logic, it is pretty clear from your characterization of people who "picket and yell and scream and put teabags..." that you just don't like these people and think they are misguided. And that is fine... You could even make a good case for them being hypocrites I imagine, the one you constructed just isn't a very solid one.
Your original comment was simply this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coconut1
So relying on the federal government is better?
It always cracks me up how VA Beach always goes red in elections and the GOP is so opposed to big government, yet if it weren't for big government, VA Beach would be a ghost town. But that's a whole 'nother issue.
And my response addressed that specifically.
So this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coconut1
or claim how important religion is but then try and deny another religious group the right to build some place.
may be a valid point but a distraction from the original comments. This is yet another example of a "straw man" fallacy:
Quote:
The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:
Person A has position X.
Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially similar position Y. The position Y is a distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position.
Quoting an opponent's words out of context — i.e. choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see fallacy of quoting out of context).[2]
Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments — thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]
Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position fails to constitute an attack on the actual position.
Like you said, we have already ruined this thread though. I didn't take it off topic but I took the bait when it went that way so I guess it is my fault as much as any. Apologies to the OP.
What do you mean if you don't mind me asking?QUOTE]
The cities are so close to each other in proximity but yet so different as far as expectations for growth. Each city has it's own unique characteristics that offers something to the region. I grew up there and lived in Wmsburg, Norfolk, VB, Chesapeake and like each one for the qualities it has to offer. It just seems like the area itself is at a standstill and can't move forward. Whether it's the local govt. or the general attitude one city has for the other, I don't know.
Sorry for getting off topic.
Yeah I agree. The area would benefit from some more cohesion like other metros and have a focal point that people can think of when they think of HR. Maybe renaming it the Norfolk MSA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UHgrad
Point taken, but as you can see above there are many forms of government spending... you don't have to be against all of them to be against some of them.
Yeah, but their rhetoric implies the opposite. We spend more than most other countries combined in regards to defense. Other developed countries went through a process of demilitarization and enjoy a high standard of living. In some cases it's even better than what people in the US enjoy. On top of that they're more hawkish in regards to foreign policy which is part of the reason it's so big to begin with. Now the Republican hopeful is talking about increasing it some more. I'm not going to turn this into a debate about politics since that would go on for ages, but as you're already aware many people are against light rail development since that's their definition of big government while making the area reliant on DoD spending is just another day in the life. This area has a lot elderly and retired military people so things like (regardless of your opinion of insolvency) Social Security and Medicaid will never be uttered in a GOPs campaign, but they'll go after things that make up an insignificant part of spending such as automatic stabilizers or the EPA just to play up appearances.
The thread seems to be going off on another topic though it's still relevant since this deals with the demographs of the area and the political culture the OP can expect if she moves here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UHgrad
Aside from his failure to mention VB town center, which I think has a better vibe than Granby street these days, I think TheJagMan gave a decent assessment and recommendations. I might choose different specific locations, but nothing he said seemed like poor choices in my book. Not everyone is a hipster, we don't all define our self worth by seeing bands that nobody else has heard of yet or eating some food that came from a isolated tribe in Papua New Guinea. Sure, VB isn't Portland or Boulder, but it can be plenty fun for us regular folks.
I think the failure to mention the VB town center has to do with the fact that it's no different than any of the other multiple life style centers that have developed over the past decade in other metro regions. If I was going to show someone around a region, I would show them things that are unique to the area and part of the local culture that you couldn't find anywhere else. I guess that makes me and the other posters here hipsters
Actually yes you can. Here is a real life example:
I can say that I want to reduce my overall monthly expenditures (analogous to reducing govt spending) by getting a less expensive car (cutting social programs) and eating out less (reducing subsidies) while living in the same house (maintaining military budget). Just because I don't want to reduce my expenditures on my house, it does not make me a hypocrite for claiming that my overall spending each month is too big. It just means that I want to spend less in certain areas and maintain it in others. You may disagree with their implementation, but you cannot assume someone is a hypocrite simply because they simultaneously want to reduce the size of the government and still support one aspect of the government (in this case the military). It just isn't the case.
If you don't mind me interjecting here, but I don't see why it's hard for someone to see why someone else would find the GOP hypocritical. They run on the platform of small government. The people who vote for them actually believe that. Their policies show the exact opposite of what they campaign on. There's nothing small about taking a surplus and deficit spending, blowing up the DoD budget, starting overseas campaigns, trying to prevent people from getting married, outlawing sodomy, preventing women from getting abortions, wiretapping phone calls, torturing people, censorship, doing tap downs at the airport,etc.... There's nothing small about their current policies. It's nothing but rhetoric and they use it because they know it's an effective tool.
If you don't mind me interjecting here, but I don't see why it's hard for someone to see why someone else would find the GOP hypocritical. They run on the platform of small government. The people who vote for them actually believe that. Their policies show the exact opposite of what they campaign on. There's nothing small about taking a surplus and deficit spending, blowing up the DoD budget, starting overseas campaigns, trying to prevent people from getting married, outlawing sodomy, preventing women from getting abortions, wiretapping phone calls, torturing people, doing tap downs at the airport,etc.... There's nothing small about the current way they've been running themselves. It's nothing but rhetoric and they use it because they know it's an effective tool.
I made a very specific point which was met with hand waiving and straw man arguments in response. Nothing more. I don't feel like I need to repost the original comment by Coconut1 or my reply to it... it is there for anyone to read.
So I then offered very specific examples of my point, which was met with ALL CAPS and more hand waiving.
So I offered an analogy hoping that the point might be more clear. I'm not sure what the reaction to that will be (if any). I was not saying that they are not hypocrites, I was just saying that the evidence offered by Coconut1 was insufficient to show that they are hypocrites. Wanting smaller government is not necessarily incompatible with supporting the military (which is the backbone of the HR economy). They may simply be against other government functions. HR would not be a "ghost town" if they cut the EPA budget, or the welfare budget, or the federal research budget, or the IRS budget... HR would only be a ghost town if the slashed the defense budget.
I don't mind your interjecting, your opinion is well thought out. The republican party has spent and spent and spent while running on a seemingly contradictory platform of small government. But that is not what my original comment was about if you go back and read it. It is funny how that ends up happening most of the time on internet forums.
I think the topics you alluded to are a little more complicated than you imply (911 happened, tax cuts were in response to surplus and supposed to expire, housing bubble began during Clinton administration, tech bubble occurred during Clinton administration, Obama administration has continued foreign policy for the most part etc...), but people tend to do that when they are making a point so it is what it is. But like you said, debating all of the things would take quite a while and consume an entire thread to itself on a political science forum.
I think the failure to mention the VB town center has to do with the fact that it's no different than any of the other multiple life style centers that have developed over the past decade in other metro regions. If I was going to show someone around a region, I would show them things that are unique to the area and part of the local culture that you couldn't find anywhere else. I guess that makes me and the other posters here hipsters
I thought he was just talking about things to do. I must have misinterpreted.
The hipster comment was uncalled for but I couldn't resist. haha
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJagMan
We can probably narrow it down to four spots where there's things to do...
Well, I think there is lots to do in Va. Beach/Norfolk/Chesapeake. It depends largely on the type of person/ person looking for things to do.
Is the person young? Older? Like music? Like the water/beach? Like fitness? Like art? Has values/ is Christian, etc. Likes sports? Does not go to bars, drinks, does not drink.
See, this question really depends on many things!
I think Va. Beach is very cool, and there is lots to do! I do not stay out past 12 midnight and do not like a big party scene. I love sports, and fitness, movies, surfing, music, love my wife and 1 year old daughter.
So, you see, not everybody wants to stay out at a bar until 2 am!
There is an amphitheatre, the Norva, the Chesapeake Bay, Nice theatres, Old Dominion University, some of the best Parks in the U.S. , just to name a few things....
So only Christians have values? What a hateful post.
No, some people have values without being Christian I guess, I did not mean to be hateful at all.
Virginia Beach is not boring. It is a cool suburban coastal City.
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