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Old 08-27-2012, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
5,581 posts, read 5,390,012 times
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Is a professional sports team absolutely dependent on outsiders coming into Hampton Roads though? Is it true that Hampton Roads alone could not sustain the team, that we would need outsiders from Richmond and DC to come down, just to break even?

The real problem I see, is that everyone would go to the games at first, because of the novelty, and then with 2 to 5 years you're left with the real fans. Sort of like The Tide. Sort of like the retail therapy here, where those with the money that can afford it go to Richmond, DC, or NYC to shop. Those that cannot afford to leave Hampton Roads, will just put up with whatever insufferable options we have here, and those with means will drive or fly elsewhere, yet return because this is one of the safest/easiest metropolitan areas of which to live. If nothing else the cheapest option in the Mid-Atlantic.

Still doesn't mean that Hampton Roads may as well not even try. If we keep deferring everything to other metropolitan areas this place will never be taken seriously.
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:39 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,238,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coconut1 View Post
What??

You said: I said:

So I ask again: How does an arena in Virginia Beach attract people from other areas in the off season? Areas that we would pull from, DC, NY, NJ, MD, etc. already have large arenas that host sports and concerts. Why would they want or need to drive all the way to Virginia Beach to see a show (which would most likely have already stopped in their town) or watch a basketball game?

It's cold and there is little to do in VA Beach during the winter. Because the vast majority of areas VA Beach pulls its tourist from already have a venue which will be hosting concerts, sports, special events, etc. they are not going to drive all the way down here to see a show. It's just not going to happen.
I don't know if you are trying to be funny or you just don't get it. Remember when I talked about how Chinatown got developed. People don't go down there to watch a basketball game or a hockey game. People go down there to shop (remember when I mentioned the shops ) and they go there to eat dinner (remember when I mentioned the restaurants ). That's what happens when you develop a district but you need something to anchor that district. The idea is having an arena to do that, which draws way more people than just putting a bunch of restaurants will.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Coconut1 View Post
Okay. So let Richmond pay for a stadium and I'm sure the Kings would have no problem moving there.

Why wouldn't Richmond people just go to DC? 95 is a far easier road to travel on than constantly clogged 64.
Then Richmond will get the revenue.

Do you know how congested 95 gets? Does the 2nd worst traffic in the nation mean anything to you???? Not only is Richmond closer to Hampton Roads but it's also cheaper and less congested. Who would want to pay $200 to stay in a hotel when they can pay half of that and see the same concert? And it's closer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coconut1 View Post
Like I've said- if that's the case, Comcast wouldn't mind paying for it. They'll get their money back in no time and it will trump the amount of money they put out.
How do you know what was negotiated? You keep question that but we don't know what the details are. Maybe we will find out the answer to your question tomorrow, but I don't think it should be a deal breaker. Virginia Beach needs this, Comcast doesn't even though they could benefit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coconut1 View Post
So the tourist are coming from eastern NC? How many people is that? Are they staying overnight?
No, they don't have to be tourist. People from NC live within an hour of that area. They can come to that area quite frequently. I mean what else do they have to do as an alternative?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coconut1 View Post
Again, 95 is a far better road to travel on than 64. I would take a DC game any day over sitting in miles of traffic along 64.
You just don't know what you're talking about or you obviously have issues with Hampton Roads (judging from your profile it is probably the latter given how glad you were to leave the Hampton Roads area). You clearly don't know what you're talking about. 95 in the DC area is one of the worst highways in the country to drive on. Y

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coconut1 View Post
Is Richmond going to pick up half the check?
I'm sure they would if they can get half the revenue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coconut1 View Post
I support the idea. I support the idea 100% provided the city doesn't foot the bill for a $100 BILLION dollar company. If Comcast is hesitant to pay a measly little $350M yet proclaims what a money maker this would be, you have to ask yourself why that is.

It's very simple- corporations don't pass up opportunities where they'll make money hand over fist. It doesn't happen.

If we really want to stimulate growth why not put the $350M into helping small businesses open up or putting that money towards bringing the Tide out to VA Beach?

I don't support corporate welfare.
Are small businesses going to draw 15k+ people on a nightly basis? Just wondering if there really is a comparison.
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:49 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,238,184 times
Reputation: 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
Is a professional sports team absolutely dependent on outsiders coming into Hampton Roads though? Is it true that Hampton Roads alone could not sustain the team, that we would need outsiders from Richmond and DC to come down, just to break even?

The real problem I see, is that everyone would go to the games at first, because of the novelty, and then with 2 to 5 years you're left with the real fans. Sort of like The Tide. Sort of like the retail therapy here, where those with the money that can afford it go to Richmond, DC, or NYC to shop. Those that cannot afford to leave Hampton Roads, will just put up with whatever insufferable options we have here, and those with means will drive or fly elsewhere, yet return because this is one of the safest/easiest metropolitan areas of which to live. If nothing else the cheapest option in the Mid-Atlantic.

Still doesn't mean that Hampton Roads may as well not even try. If we keep deferring everything to other metropolitan areas this place will never be taken seriously.
Every area struggles when the teams aren't good, but what makes the difference is the interest in that sport and the marketing. The Redskins are awful, they have been awful for 2 decades, but I guarantee you they are the #1 story every night that they play in the DC region and there are plenty of people at their games. Hard to say what the support will be in VA Beach, but what helps the city as a whole is to use the stadium to anchor to spur development. That is what the vision appears to be.
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:58 PM
 
3,849 posts, read 7,596,058 times
Reputation: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans View Post
I don't know if you are trying to be funny or you just don't get it. Remember when I talked about how Chinatown got developed. People don't go down there to watch a basketball game or a hockey game. People go down there to shop (remember when I mentioned the shops ) and they go there to eat dinner (remember when I mentioned the restaurants ). That's what happens when you develop a district but you need something to anchor that district. The idea is having an arena to do that, which draws way more people than just putting a bunch of restaurants will.
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

You said:
Quote:
They are trying to make Virginia Beach a year long destination and the only way they do so is if they give people a reason to come down there.
Explain this. What does a "year long destination" mean. Who is coming to this year long destination? Locals only, or tourist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans View Post
Do you know how congested 95 gets? Does the 2nd worst traffic in the nation mean anything to you???? Not only is Richmond closer to Hampton Roads but it's also cheaper and less congested.
Do you have a source for that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans View Post
How do you know what was negotiated? You keep question that but we don't know what the details are. Maybe we will find out the answer to your question tomorrow, but I don't think it should be a deal breaker. Virginia Beach needs this, Comcast doesn't even though they could benefit.
Neither of us know what will be finally negotiated. My point is simply that VA Beach should not be paying for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans View Post
You just don't know what you're talking about or you obviously have issues with Hampton Roads (judging from your profile it is probably the latter given how glad you were to leave the Hampton Roads area). You clearly don't know what you're talking about. 95 in the DC area is one of the worst highways in the country to drive on.
Again, a source, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans View Post
Are small businesses going to draw 15k+ people on a nightly basis? Just wondering if there really is a comparison.
No, and neither is this arena. Not even Madison Square Garden has nightly events.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:01 PM
 
275 posts, read 763,836 times
Reputation: 144
According to this 50 Worst Commutes: America's Highways to Hell - The Daily Beast, DC is the 4th worst, out of 50. That's pretty crappy.

For the record, 64 near Tidewater/HRBT ranked 16th.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:03 PM
 
5,564 posts, read 7,668,146 times
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Well we might get a stadium, but not the Kings. Guess we'll know more tomorrow, but even the stadium is looking like a no go at the moment.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:05 PM
 
5,564 posts, read 7,668,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvpirate05 View Post
According to this 50 Worst Commutes: America's Highways to Hell - The Daily Beast, DC is the 4th worst, out of 50. That's pretty crappy.

For the record, 64 near Tidewater/HRBT ranked 16th.
Yeah, but that's heading through the tunnel from Norfolk to Hampton. Not toward the beach.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:17 PM
 
3,849 posts, read 7,596,058 times
Reputation: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvpirate05 View Post
According to this 50 Worst Commutes: America's Highways to Hell - The Daily Beast, DC is the 4th worst, out of 50. That's pretty crappy.

For the record, 64 near Tidewater/HRBT ranked 16th.
Thanks for the link. Although it's not second, fourth isn't much better, I'll give them that.

Here's the other side to the coin, though. Anyone going into DC for a game will be going in the evening, thus mostly a reverse commute. Leaving DC after a game there are 3 lanes of traffic taking people out as opposed to 2 on 64. Add in the HRBT which consistently causes backups and again, 64 is a worse commute when it comes to getting to the game/show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
Yeah, but that's heading through the tunnel from Norfolk to Hampton. Not toward the beach.
Which most people from Richmond and the Peninsula take to head to VA Beach. 64 to 264.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:08 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,238,184 times
Reputation: 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coconut1 View Post
Thanks for the link. Although it's not second, fourth isn't much better, I'll give them that.

Here's the other side to the coin, though. Anyone going into DC for a game will be going in the evening, thus mostly a reverse commute. Leaving DC after a game there are 3 lanes of traffic taking people out as opposed to 2 on 64. Add in the HRBT which consistently causes backups and again, 64 is a worse commute when it comes to getting to the game/show.



Which most people from Richmond and the Peninsula take to head to VA Beach. 64 to 264.
It varies on the study. Some studies have DC #1

Survey Ranks D.C. Worst Traffic Region in Country | NBC4 Washington
Which cities have the worst traffic? – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

And as far as the traffic leaving games, just curious, have you ever been to the Verizon Center? I'm trying to understand where you are getting your information because it's not accurate at all.

You are obviously just going to keep arguing so I think at this point my point has been made.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:30 AM
 
275 posts, read 763,836 times
Reputation: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
Yeah, but that's heading through the tunnel from Norfolk to Hampton. Not toward the beach.
Good point, and I should've clarified that in my post. 264 to the beach can get messy, esp. around Mt. Trashmore/Rosemont, but it's worse heading into downtown Norfolk near NSU. Even when I used to head to ODU in the mornings, it was never that bad. 10 minute backup on the worst day (maybe once every few months).

A game night at the beach will obviously be a little different, but I'm not expecting it to be anywhere close to what 95 experiences heading into DC (general traffic). If anything, it'll probably be somewhere between downtown Norfolk on its worst day and 64@Tidewater on an average one. At least during winter months, it won't interfere with anyone trying to have fun at the beach.

But that's getting ahead of ourselves. The Comcast pitch is this afternoon at 3. I'll be headed to the airport, but I'll definitely check my phone before I board my flight and during my layover!

FWIW, I once passed the Verizon Center heading to a football game at Howard U. This was close to 10 years ago, but I believe it was a 2-lane street back then, maybe 4? I can't imagine how the traffic looks getting to games there! Granted they have the Metro, but that's still gotta be a mess! Same for getting to Nationals Stadium.
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