San Francisco Bay vs. Hampton Roads (Virginia Beach, Norfolk: for sale, to rent, condos)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by darkblue

Weather is almost as same as Bay Area . In 75- 100s(low) in summer, Starts descending from October last week (low 60s to med-high50s). Low temperatres till April last week.Almost no snow.

The weather is nothing like The Bay Area. Our coastal areas are extremely comfortable during the summer while inland valley get into the 90s and low 100s.

1. We dont get sporadic rain showers in summer--almost never rains here in summer-ick.

2. We dont have gut-wrenching humidity or nasty mugginess.

3. It never snows outside of our higher elevations,(we have mountains) and even there they only get a light dusting sometimes. By never, I mean the last time snow actually made it to sea level was one day back in the mid 1970s. Since then, nada.

[darkblue]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

The weather is nothing like The Bay Area. Our coastal areas are extremely comfortable during the summer while inland valley get into the 90s and low 100s.

1. We dont get sporadic rain showers in summer--almost never rains here in summer-ick.

2. We dont have gut-wrenching humidity or nasty mugginess.

3. It never snows outside of our higher elevations,(we have mountains) and even there they only get a light dusting sometimes. By never, I mean the last time snow actually made it to sea level was one day back in the mid 1970s. Since then, nada.

Bay Area covers from Marina to Sanjose and Oakland. Sanojse and Oakland, you never see snow . After golden gate bridge and marina area, you'll see dew, fog and, snow.

[Lethal_Poison]

Originally Posted by stacylee926

I am not sure the statement from Darkblue is accurate about jobs here.

We have Downtown Norfolk where there are tall bank buildings and office buildings - people do work there. Yes, there is alot of healthcare options. Tourism is an option too. However, we have a fair amount of different types of jobs here. Blue collar and white collar.

Maybe if the OP could tell us what type of work he does, that would help.

There are few white collar jobs that are not government related in the area. Not to be insulting, but it seems like you have a serious disconnect from reality. Pick up a paper or go on a job search site for the area, the number and type of jobs for an area this size is a joke, forget about the quality of the job.

I compared the Indianapolis, IN metro area, in the middle of the rust belt, to the Norfolk, VA metro area over a 3 week period in May for jobs in the accounting field, on Monster.com and this is what I found.


1. Indianapolis had 11 pages of accounting jobs posted during the period. Norfolk had EIGHT total jobs, which isnt even a page.

2. The average starting wage for an accountant in Norfolk, VA was $12 an hour, with $8 the low. In Indianapolis, the average starting wage was $15, with $10 the low.

3. The average experience requirement for the average job in Norfolk was 3 years. The average experience requirement for the average job in Indianapolis was 1 year.

On any given Sunday, the Pilot will have no more then 5 or 6 accounting jobs listed, most of which are very low paying, or require rediculous qualifications for the job and money (10 years experience and an MBA for 45k a year? Get real)

[EMERALDGIRL]

Originally Posted by Lethal_Poison

There are few white collar jobs that are not government related in the area. Not to be insulting, but it seems like you have a serious disconnect from reality. Pick up a paper or go on a job search site for the area, the number and type of jobs for an area this size is a joke, forget about the quality of the job.

I compared the Indianapolis, IN metro area, in the middle of the rust belt, to the Norfolk, VA metro area over a 3 week period in May for jobs in the accounting field, on Monster.com and this is what I found.


1. Indianapolis had 11 pages of accounting jobs posted during the period. Norfolk had EIGHT total jobs, which isnt even a page.

2. The average starting wage for an accountant in Norfolk, VA was $12 an hour, with $8 the low. In Indianapolis, the average starting wage was $15, with $10 the low.

3. The average experience requirement for the average job in Norfolk was 3 years. The average experience requirement for the average job in Indianapolis was 1 year.

On any given Sunday, the Pilot will have no more then 5 or 6 accounting jobs listed, most of which are very low paying, or require rediculous qualifications for the job and money (10 years experience and an MBA for 45k a year? Get real)

I have to agree with you on this one. The pay scale also does not balance out with the cost of living in this area as well. I can't wait to leave this place!!!

[Lethal_Poison]

Originally Posted by stacylee926

If you want the beach thing - then Hampton Roads IS a good choice.
1. You can actually live at the beach AND make a decent living. Most big beach towns on the east coast do not have much industry other than tourism. We are a small to medium size city so we have plenty of non-tourism jobs.
2. Housing prices here are reasonable - much cheaper than the west coast and the Washington DC area.
3. We have ALOT to do in your free time - history, museums, nature.
4. Good weather - we have 4 seasons, but our winters tend to be much milder than the rest of Virginia. We can still get cold, but little snow. If you want snow it is close by.

As far as how much $$ you need to make to live here.... that is a hard question. Depends on if you want to buy a home, rent a home, drive brand new SUV's and what your job is.

1. You cannot make a decent living in Hampton Roads. Hampton Roads has fewer fortune 500 companies based in it then any metro area of its size on the complete east coast, and Im willing to wager the country as well. By the way, Virginia Beach is a large city by US standards (I think its like the 30th largest in the US last time I checked), and is bigger then much more famous and prosporous Atlanta and Pittsburgh. The only way you get rich here is by having a cushy government job, selling crap to retirees or owning one of the millions of overpriced tourist traps you find all over the city. Stop comparing oranges to apples. You cant compare Atlantic City or Ocean City or Nags Head to Virginia Beach. Compare Virginia Beach to Jacksonville, Miami, Baltimore, Boston, etc etc.....in every case, Virginia Beach comes up horribly short.

2. Housing prices are NOT reasonable here. Although houses are slightly cheaper here then some of the places you mentioned, their INCOMES are much higher. Both Chesapeake and Virginia Beach rank in the top 50 most overpriced cities in the country.

3. We have NOTHING to do in the free time. If hanging out at the beach (forget about swimming in the water, since large swaths of the beaches are always closed because of pollution) or the strip isnt your thing, there really isnt much else. You can go to water country or Busch Gardens up in Williamsburg in the summer, but thats about it. The local museums are appalling, the zoo is a joke, we are also the largest metro area in the US without a major league sports team. Youll also find our "history" has been turned in to nothing more then a tourist trap trying to hawk overpriced crap to idiots.

4. Except when those 4 seasons like to cover over eachother, or when it just decides to be 70 degrees for a week in December, and snow the following Saturday........


5. Considering the average house in the area is well over 200k, and anyone will tell you that no more then 30% of your income should go to housing....lets see, 200k house-0 down (youll get a townhouse in a bad area for that), payments would be about $1200 without insurance or taxes, so without insurance and taxes, thats $14400 a year, or to be affordable, youd need a job paying roughly 50k a year. Keep in mind, you need to be making that a year (that is roughly the average household income in VA Beach, it is highly unlikely you will obtain this with a single income here), and this will get you basically a townhouse in an undesireable part of town, such as Lake Edward.

[7citiesVA]

Are the costs of living the same or slightly different?

That could be a reason why. The cost of living is up pretty much everywhere and continues to rise as I type. I think everyone in this area could use an extra 3 dollars to their pay rate, at the least.

Or maybe Accountants are in High demand in that metro. 2 to 3 years seems to be the norm for required experience in many places i have researched for Accountants. Advertising for 1 year comes off as a little desperate on that company's behalf. If you know about the accounting field, 1 year is not really alot nor enough experience if your new in the field. You need about 2 to 3 years to become a little seasoned and knowledgable even if you have a degree.

[Lethal_Poison]

Originally Posted by 7citiesVA

Are the costs of living the same or slightly different?

That could be a reason why. The cost of living is up pretty much everywhere and continues to rise as I type. I think everyone in this area could use an extra 3 dollars to their pay rate, at the least.

Or maybe Accountants are in High demand in that metro. 2 to 3 years seems to be the norm for required experience in many places i have researched for Accountants. Advertising for 1 year comes off as a little desperate on that company's behalf. If you know about the accounting field, 1 year is not really alot nor enough experience if your new in the field. You need about 2 to 3 years to become a little seasoned and knowledgable even if you have a degree.

1. The costs of living in Indianapolis are significantly lower.


2. Demand for accountants usually accompanies demand for ALL white collar work. Why? Having an accountant on staff normally is the sign of a corporate presence or identity. That means managers, engineers, IT and everything else that comes with it. Low demand for accountants normally means your economy is based around sales and retail, and possibly construction or military. Low and behold, the thickest parts of the job section are dedicated to low paying retail service jobs, sales, and construction. There is no coincidence to that at all. This place is the WORST city in the country with over 400k people, period. There is no contest. Raleigh, NC is half the size, lacks the ocean commerce or the ocean related occupations, and is light years ahead of Virginia Beach and you can actually afford to live there. Amazing.

[stacylee926]

Originally Posted by Lethal_Poison

1. You cannot make a decent living in Hampton Roads. Hampton Roads has fewer fortune 500 companies based in it then any metro area of its size on the complete east coast, and Im willing to wager the country as well. By the way, Virginia Beach is a large city by US standards (I think its like the 30th largest in the US last time I checked), and is bigger then much more famous and prosporous Atlanta and Pittsburgh. The only way you get rich here is by having a cushy government job, selling crap to retirees or owning one of the millions of overpriced tourist traps you find all over the city. Stop comparing oranges to apples. You cant compare Atlantic City or Ocean City or Nags Head to Virginia Beach. Compare Virginia Beach to Jacksonville, Miami, Baltimore, Boston, etc etc.....in every case, Virginia Beach comes up horribly short.

2. Housing prices are NOT reasonable here. Although houses are slightly cheaper here then some of the places you mentioned, their INCOMES are much higher. Both Chesapeake and Virginia Beach rank in the top 50 most overpriced cities in the country.

3. We have NOTHING to do in the free time. If hanging out at the beach (forget about swimming in the water, since large swaths of the beaches are always closed because of pollution) or the strip isnt your thing, there really isnt much else. You can go to water country or Busch Gardens up in Williamsburg in the summer, but thats about it. The local museums are appalling, the zoo is a joke, we are also the largest metro area in the US without a major league sports team. Youll also find our "history" has been turned in to nothing more then a tourist trap trying to hawk overpriced crap to idiots.

4. Except when those 4 seasons like to cover over eachother, or when it just decides to be 70 degrees for a week in December, and snow the following Saturday........


5. Considering the average house in the area is well over 200k, and anyone will tell you that no more then 30% of your income should go to housing....lets see, 200k house-0 down (youll get a townhouse in a bad area for that), payments would be about $1200 without insurance or taxes, so without insurance and taxes, thats $14400 a year, or to be affordable, youd need a job paying roughly 50k a year. Keep in mind, you need to be making that a year (that is roughly the average household income in VA Beach, it is highly unlikely you will obtain this with a single income here), and this will get you basically a townhouse in an undesireable part of town, such as Lake Edward.

Lethal Poison...... You're post is pretty strong........... I have scanned your posts to this site. You seem to have 'strong' opinions about alot of places - Indiana, DC Area, Minneapolis. First I want to say that I was responding to the OP - who specifically was looking at 2 cities in relation to beaches. I have been to SF, lived in the Northern Virginia area for 41 years, and been either visiting/or living in Hampton Roads for over 20 of those years. I know about cost of living. Try buying a house in Northern Virginia.... you won't even get a TH 30 min outside of DC worth living in for less than 400K. Housing prices here ARE fair and getting better every day as buyers offer more and more incentives just to sell. Maybe you can't afford a house, but we do not know exactly what the OP is looking to spend. $50K as a combined family income is not that difficult to do

Your posts indicate that you have either moved out of the area or are looking to leave. To each his own. However to say there is NOTHING to do here??? That is crazy. Living in Northern Virginia gave me opportunities that Hampton Roads can only dream about, but I still find lots of things to do here.

Who is talking about getting rich? The OP is talking about working and making a decent living. There are plenty of jobs to be had, but apparently not in accounting according to your research. I work in a blue collar industry - in an office job - and I make a decent living. I work for generous employers and work with nice people. That alone is quite a change from the rat race of DC.

Who is going to complain if it is 70 in December? We all know it won't last - blame all that on Global Warming.

[7citiesVA]

Yea sometimes on this site you have to weed out the overly optimistic posters and the bitter/extremely negative posters. Most have good faith in posting their opinions i guess.

No offense Lethal but you are a little overly negative. The rest of the country is experiencing some of the same issues if not more. But I do agree that things could step up a little in tidewater all around the board. New Leadership or something.

[Lethal_Poison]

Originally Posted by stacylee926

Lethal Poison...... You're post is pretty strong........... I have scanned your posts to this site. You seem to have 'strong' opinions about alot of places - Indiana, DC Area, Minneapolis. First I want to say that I was responding to the OP - who specifically was looking at 2 cities in relation to beaches. I have been to SF, lived in the Northern Virginia area for 41 years, and been either visiting/or living in Hampton Roads for over 20 of those years. I know about cost of living. Try buying a house in Northern Virginia.... you won't even get a TH 30 min outside of DC worth living in for less than 400K. Housing prices here ARE fair and getting better every day as buyers offer more and more incentives just to sell. Maybe you can't afford a house, but we do not know exactly what the OP is looking to spend. $50K as a combined family income is not that difficult to do

Your posts indicate that you have either moved out of the area or are looking to leave. To each his own. However to say there is NOTHING to do here??? That is crazy. Living in Northern Virginia gave me opportunities that Hampton Roads can only dream about, but I still find lots of things to do here.

Who is talking about getting rich? The OP is talking about working and making a decent living. There are plenty of jobs to be had, but apparently not in accounting according to your research. I work in a blue collar industry - in an office job - and I make a decent living. I work for generous employers and work with nice people. That alone is quite a change from the rat race of DC.

Who is going to complain if it is 70 in December? We all know it won't last - blame all that on Global Warming.

1. How exactly did Virginia Beach and Chesapeake make, I believe it was Forbes, list of most overpriced cities if they are "fair". They are NOT fair. Yeah, Northern DC, probably a little more overpriced, but there are dozens of towns and cities up and down the east coast that are a much better option, as well as 100's slightly further in land.

2. You know damn well the OP would need an income upward over 80k to buy a house in any neighborhood youd want to walk outside at night in this area. That is more then twice my income, and I have a 4 year degree, and almost 2, 2 year degrees. When I first graduated college, my wife and I COMBINED made less then 40k a year. We actually didnt crack 50k until recently, and thats only because Im pretty much being paid a rediculous figure assuming the prevailing wage for my experience level in the area. If I did not have a bachelors degree, and I wasnt such a smooth talker and had such a great track record over my limited work experience, we would be struggling to hit 40k, forget about 50k, which in your book, isnt that hard to make.

3. My wife is also in the "general office" profession, and the maximum she has EVER been offered here is $11 an hour, dispite having 7 years of experience doing everything from call center to warehouse work. Eleven dollars an hour is a joke here. Although, Ive talked to people who think its the best thing since sliced bread, and thats sad. The average wage shes been offered has been about $9, but as low as $6.50.