Why does Norfolk gets such a bad rep?

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by rtandc

I can understand your debate and might even agree with some of it to a point but you lost all credibility when you used Paris Hilton as your example....you do know that Paris Hilton was kicked out of school and had to earn her GED right? ..So you fail as far as your response because your own example shows that just because you have money everything is not just handed to you like you think....you still have to earn it.........

Boo hoo Paris Hilton was kicked out of Canterbury Boarding School, an Ivy League prep school with a 6:1 student teacher ratio. Likely the only reason why she did not return was Paris Hiltons decision, not lack of ability of her daddy to buy off the school, or the schools willingness to accept the payoff.

Rich kids have to work very hard to fail in life, as poor kids have to work very hard to be anything but poor as adults.

[telemonster]

Sorry guys, I don't buy into the everyone has the same chance in America.

It's about class.

If you come from an upper class family many more doors are open to you.

Lower class is just the opposite.

If you're lower class you can work and possibly change classes. But often I think it takes several generations.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by telemonster

Sorry guys, I don't buy into the everyone has the same chance in America.

It's about class.

If you come from an upper class family many more doors are open to you.

Lower class is just the opposite.

If you're lower class you can work and possibly change classes. But often I think it takes several generations.

This is exactly true. A person in the lowest quintile of income at age 18, has only about a 50% chance of moving past the lowest two quintiles within 20 years, while a person in the top quintile has less then a 6% chance of falling down any quintiles, and almost no chance (something like 1.2%) of falling down past the top two quintiles.

A person born in to wealth has to try VERY hard to squander a life of luxury and leisure, while a person born in to poverty has to have cards continuously fall their way just to make it in to the middle class.

[HR_N8V]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Rich kids have to work very hard to fail in life, as poor kids have to work very hard to be anything but poor as adults.

But are you willing to put in the work? Reality is that the government isn't going to do it for you. The only thing our current "representatives" care about is holding on to their own power. I disagree with an earlier post you made about governments responsibilites. The government is here to protect the country's borders, and the citizens' liberty. That's it. But I think we both agree that overall the machine is too big and fails in general.

I also disagree with your assessment of how the gov't is "propping up" capitalism. The very programs you mention actually destroy capitlaism by placing outside influences into the market. Laissez-faire capitalism isn't really possible when you regulate it. What we practice in America really can't be defined as free market or Laissez-faire capitalism, it's a global-based bastardization of it. With that said, I prefer it over Socialism. I have no interest in working for someone's else's benefit anymore than I already do.

I do think you're right on a fair amount of the overall perception of why people fail. People generally won't accept that we're on our own. That should be enough to motivate anyone to succeed, but most arguments seem to make excuses that "you can't get ahead" because "the system is keeping you down". Attitude means something, and the majority of people seem to lower their own ceiling by blaming outside forces [or bogeymen as it were].

I grew up in Norfolk, in Ballentine to be exact. I do live better than my parents ever did at my age. I'm not wealthy, but I'm okay and am able to provide a comfortable existence for my family. I did it on a Norfolk Public Schools education (B.T.W.), no 4 year college, and very little money to support me. I simply worked at being the best I could be at my profession and it's gone relatively well since.

So to avoid a major threadjack....Norfolk gets its bad rep from having a high crime rate, and large swatches of poor areas. It's not race, it's socio-economics. I see it happening in VB right now. I predict that very soon people will note little difference between the two cities.

PS - Randomdude, and others. Although we may disagree, thanks for the discourse. It's nice to know there are others out there who welcome a conversation about more than what's on TV sometimes.

[xGrendelx]

Originally Posted by HR_N8V

Norfolk gets its bad rep from having a high crime rate, and large swatches of poor areas. It's not race, it's socio-economics. I see it happening in VB right now. I predict that very soon people will note little difference between the two cities.

Why do you think this is? I feel like I see the same trends also. The only thing I can think of is the neglect of neighborhoods like Lake Edwards and Green Run. You see our city do things like build a fence in the middle of Virginia Beach Blvd to stop jaywalking, but somehow let places like Lake Edwards downward-spiral. I feel like more effort can be put into the problem areas of Va Beach.

[rtandc]

Originally Posted by xGrendelx

Why do you think this is? I feel like I see the same trends also. The only thing I can think of is the neglect of neighborhoods like Lake Edwards and Green Run. You see our city do things like build a fence in the middle of Virginia Beach Blvd to stop jaywalking, but somehow let places like Lake Edwards downward-spiral. I feel like more effort can be put into the problem areas of Va Beach.

Please....you know the answer to your own question!!!!!!
You have to run the city just like you run any other business, you have to put your money into what will give you the biggest return. So let’s say you spend a million bucks in the Lake Edward neighborhood. What will you get back for spending those million bucks? Nothing!!!! Well maybe you get newly paved streets or more upscale landscaping but that’s about it..... The tax base is very low in that area and would continue to be. But if you spend that million bucks at Town Center or at the oceanfront or within a high dollar neighborhood the chances of you seeing a bigger return in both taxes and revenue is greater

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by HR_N8V

I also disagree with your assessment of how the gov't is "propping up" capitalism. The very programs you mention actually destroy capitlaism by placing outside influences into the market. Laissez-faire capitalism isn't really possible when you regulate it. What we practice in America really can't be defined as free market or Laissez-faire capitalism, it's a global-based bastardization of it. With that said, I prefer it over Socialism. I have no interest in working for someone's else's benefit anymore than I already do.

Hold on, I never once said the government is "propping up capitalism". The only thing to the effect I said was that its neccessary for the government to hand out welfare for capitalism to continue. Laissez faire capitalism can not possibly work. It will lead to a revolution by the underclass 100% of the time.

Originally Posted by HR_N8V

I do think you're right on a fair amount of the overall perception of why people fail. People generally won't accept that we're on our own. That should be enough to motivate anyone to succeed, but most arguments seem to make excuses that "you can't get ahead" because "the system is keeping you down". Attitude means something, and the majority of people seem to lower their own ceiling by blaming outside forces [or bogeymen as it were].

The truth is that outside forces ARE contributing to keeping the poor, poor. The poor do not have the same access to quality education, nutrition, safe housing, recreation, etc.

Originally Posted by HR_N8V

I grew up in Norfolk, in Ballentine to be exact. I do live better than my parents ever did at my age. I'm not wealthy, but I'm okay and am able to provide a comfortable existence for my family. I did it on a Norfolk Public Schools education (B.T.W.), no 4 year college, and very little money to support me. I simply worked at being the best I could be at my profession and it's gone relatively well since.

50% of people who are 18 in the lowest income bracket have a chance of being in the middle quintile by age 38.