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Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
26,699 posts, read 41,742,544 times
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I am a native of Hampton Roads and I USED to be a big defender of the area. From my friends who still live down there 2000 new jobs that pay above $35k a year is GREAT news for the area.
Now for some of the other comments. The wage scale for jobs there makes a housing situation which has inflated prices already even worse. I live in Northern VA which housing is outrageous but the wage scale at least supports. I lived in Louisville from 2010-2012 which the wage scale and job situation is similar to Hampton Roads but there you can definitely find a decent 1 bedroom apartment in a okay area for $600, don't even try to do the same in Hampton Roads.
Crime, I don't think this is a huge issue as people in Hampton Roads make it out to be. Are there parts of HR you should run away from? Yes. Is it bad like Baltimore or even parts of DC? No.
Honestly, Hampton Roads biggest problem is lack of drawing power in terms of national popularity. It has nothing that a person from say the Midwest would want to move there for IMO, aside from being stationed there. Even Louisville (I ran away from there the second I finished my undergrad degree) has a lot of charm in its city and bigger city amenities than Hampton Roads at a low cost-of-living.
I don't think Hampton Roads is hell on Earth like some in this forum do, but there are reasons that most my HS classmates who had the means bolted out of HR after they finished college.
The median household income in Norfolk (according to census data), where these jobs will be located, is $45,000 a year. That says to me that these are good jobs for Norfolk and people shouldn't be making fun of them.
There is no reason that 1 person should expect to make more than the median income for the city by themselves unless they have some pretty specialized skills, but two people working median jobs at this "call center" would have a household income of $72,000. That would be 60% higher than the median household income for the city.
It isn't about optimism or pessimism, it's about recognizing that something will benefit people other than yourself. That is 1800 middle class jobs and 1800 people in downtown to support all of the restaurants and businesses down there. If you complain that the area sucks then criticize every thing it does to improve you are not helping anyone you just come off like an ass. You don't have to jump up and down celebrating these jobs but to condescendingly make fun of them is pretty callous. When InBev bought Anheuser-Busch, we saw lots of layoffs in St. Louis. I bet those people would love to get these jobs in their city.
Like I said, it's not Google, and it does suck that the city had to provide all these incentives (which seems to be common these days), but it's a hell of a lot better than working at Walmart or McDonalds and it is never bad to have a fortune 500 company with a large presence in your area. If the they are happy with the market they could always expand later.
The median household income in Norfolk (according to census data), where these jobs will be located, is $45,000 a year. That says to me that these are good jobs for Norfolk and people shouldn't be making fun of them.
There is no reason that 1 person should expect to make more than the median income for the city by themselves unless they have some pretty specialized skills, but two people working median jobs at this "call center" would have a household income of $72,000. That would be 60% higher than the median household income for the city.
It isn't about optimism or pessimism, it's about recognizing that something will benefit people other than yourself. That is 1800 middle class jobs and 1800 people in downtown to support all of the restaurants and businesses down there. If you complain that the area sucks then criticize every thing it does to improve you are not helping anyone you just come off like an ass. You don't have to jump up and down celebrating these jobs but to condescendingly make fun of them is pretty callous. When InBev bought Anheuser-Busch, we saw lots of layoffs in St. Louis. I bet those people would love to get these jobs in their city.
Like I said, it's not Google, and it does suck that the city had to provide all these incentives (which seems to be common these days), but it's a hell of a lot better than working at Walmart or McDonalds and it is never bad to have a fortune 500 company with a large presence in your area. If the they are happy with the market they could always expand later.
I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but you don't live here, and you don't understand the history of incompetence with our city leadership.
What you are seeing through these posts is years of frustration coming through.
Sure, jobs are better than no jobs. It's just hilarious to a lot of us that Norfolk is celebrating this like we have Twitter moving here or something.
You'll see when you live here, city management and government is laughably bad. If it weren't for the military propping this place up, it would crumble in weeks.
The median household income in Norfolk (according to census data), where these jobs will be located, is $45,000 a year. That says to me that these are good jobs for Norfolk and people shouldn't be making fun of them.
There is no reason that 1 person should expect to make more than the median income for the city by themselves unless they have some pretty specialized skills, but two people working median jobs at this "call center" would have a household income of $72,000. That would be 60% higher than the median household income for the city.
It isn't about optimism or pessimism, it's about recognizing that something will benefit people other than yourself. That is 1800 middle class jobs and 1800 people in downtown to support all of the restaurants and businesses down there. If you complain that the area sucks then criticize every thing it does to improve you are not helping anyone you just come off like an ass. You don't have to jump up and down celebrating these jobs but to condescendingly make fun of them is pretty callous. When InBev bought Anheuser-Busch, we saw lots of layoffs in St. Louis. I bet those people would love to get these jobs in their city.
Like I said, it's not Google, and it does suck that the city had to provide all these incentives (which seems to be common these days), but it's a hell of a lot better than working at Walmart or McDonalds and it is never bad to have a fortune 500 company with a large presence in your area. If the they are happy with the market they could always expand later.
While I don't know what numbers specifically you're pulling (zip code, city as a whole, etc.) numbers can make any area look good. Reality is a whole different story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockdev
I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but you don't live here, and you don't understand the history of incompetence with our city leadership.
What you are seeing through these posts is years of frustration coming through.
Sure, jobs are better than no jobs. It's just hilarious to a lot of us that Norfolk is celebrating this like we have Twitter moving here or something.
You'll see when you live here, city management and government is laughably bad. If it weren't for the military propping this place up, it would crumble in weeks.
Agreed. Vboryork- definitely move and experience it for yourself. I would love for those that move in to report back every year so people can see how they're doing.
I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but you don't live here, and you don't understand the history of incompetence with our city leadership.
What you are seeing through these posts is years of frustration coming through.
Sure, jobs are better than no jobs. It's just hilarious to a lot of us that Norfolk is celebrating this like we have Twitter moving here or something.
You'll see when you live here, city management and government is laughably bad. If it weren't for the military propping this place up, it would crumble in weeks.
All I ask is that you try to keep in mind this is a relocation forum where people come to find information about areas they might move to. Having to sift through threads and threads of petty bickering, hyperbole, and misinformation makes it much less useful to folks like me who are actually trying to research a move. At least try to be specific with the negativity. If crime is bad in some parts say which parts, if traffic sucks at tunnels and bridges say that. If the job market is poor or pay sucks in certain fields then say which ones. Telling people the region is crime ridden and gridlocked is both inaccurate (it seems relatively average in both regards according to all available data) and unhelpful. There are clearly very nice areas, cities without crime issues, decent commutes to be had, and lots of positive things to be said about the area...
While I don't know what numbers specifically you're pulling (zip code, city as a whole, etc.) numbers can make any area look good. Reality is a whole different story.
I thought that me saying "The median household income in Norfolk (according to census data), where these jobs will be located, is $45,000 a year." was pretty clear that these jobs are in Norfolk, and the median household income in Norfolk, according to the census, is $45,000 a year. But I can certainly provide a link.
It's actually listed as $44,150 but I rounded up to be cleaner.
I am unclear how the census data for incomes departs from reality, or how reality would tell a whole different story. Perhaps you could elaborate. Do you have wage data that is better than the census? Is $44,150 supposed to make the area look good? It seems relatively low to me, VB is closer to $65,000 although there are probably a lot more 2 person households in VB as well. It also says 23% of people in poverty compared with only 8% in VB... I don't think that makes the city look particularly good either. All the more reason these jobs are to be celebrated rather than mocked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coconut1
Agreed. Vboryork- definitely move and experience it for yourself. I would love for those that move in to report back every year so people can see how they're doing.
I will try, although given what I've seen of this forum so far I'm not sure I would want to hang around here and debate people about this kind of stuff day after day. But I will certainly put a reminder in my phone to pop in next spring and give an update after we've gotten settled in and had a chance to really get the feel for the area.
That said, a large percentage of my (soon to be) coworkers I have talked to while I'm here have relocated and most all are very happy... particularly the ones raising children. Some of the younger folks complain about Hampton being boring, which I could definitely see, but that is not the stage in life I'm in anymore. Now admittedly, most of the folks working at NASA are also making a pretty good salary and doing work they find fulfilling, so they are probably biased towards being happier than average. By the same token, perhaps this forum is just biased towards people who are unhappy with the area than average... who else is going to come on here day after day and talk about the same old stuff? I certainly don't intend to whether or not I end up liking it after the move.
I do not think they will get people with degrees to stay at 36K, but for some people that is a good salary for what is probably entry level office work that these 1780 people can use as a stepping stone towards other careers in Hampton Roads or elsewhere. I know several degreed people who have moved on from call center work to other industries in Hampton Roads or worked their way up to call center management (where they make really good money).
Sure, the company may not be Twitter. Actually, have you all seen that recent snarky letter from the Yelp customer service associate who made $12 an hour in the Bay Area? I'd much rather have $12 an hour here than $12 an hour there where one bedroom apartments an hour from work are $1200 for an apartment where it is just a room and you share a floor bathroom/shower.
The area isn't cheap, but it is manageable. The 2BR apartments I used to live in were and still are around $800 a month with water/sewage/trash included in a safe part of Norfolk. $400 a month with a roommate, $450 until you add in shared electric on average. You can afford that and a small car note and be fine until you advance or find your next thing. But we have to start building a diversified economy somehow! Attracting one place will help you attract more.
Vboryork, the very fact that there is "petty bickering, hyperbole, and misinformation" regarding this area says a lot in and of itself. I don't see this kind of discourse on most of the other Virginia subforums.
There are plenty of things to love about this area and plenty of things to hate. It comes down to personal preference and whether one has a decent living wage job in the first place.
I hope you enjoy living here when you make your move. Good luck.
All I ask is that you try to keep in mind this is a relocation forum where people come to find information about areas they might move to. Having to sift through threads and threads of petty bickering, hyperbole, and misinformation makes it much less useful to folks like me who are actually trying to research a move. At least try to be specific with the negativity. If crime is bad in some parts say which parts, if traffic sucks at tunnels and bridges say that. If the job market is poor or pay sucks in certain fields then say which ones. Telling people the region is crime ridden and gridlocked is both inaccurate (it seems relatively average in both regards according to all available data) and unhelpful. There are clearly very nice areas, cities without crime issues, decent commutes to be had, and lots of positive things to be said about the area...
Time to take off the rose-tinted glasses.
This is not negativity. It is information.
Take it or leave it.
People tend to have a lot of optimism when moving to a place. Trust me, that optimism will quickly diminish the 30th time you're sitting in tunnel traffic, or in traffic in Williamsburg due to tourists, or when you hear about a murders in the East End or Norfolk every night on the news, or when you lose your job and realize it is hard as hell to find a new one here.
You have a blank slate. Save your judgments for when you've lived here for a few years.
vboryork- You really don't have to try to convince anyone here of how great the area is. If you believe all the statistics and figures you're reading, what we say is irrelevant. I also second what Lily said- you don't see this in other forums not only in VA, but other states as well. If you don't find it telling, and you believe all is great, you need not ask any questions about how life is here, no?
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