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Old 07-04-2017, 05:30 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
4,844 posts, read 4,578,718 times
Reputation: 2441

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
I really was only being complementary of your great city. I felt like it was not getting a fair shake here and other places. I am a native of Atlanta (another brave and beautiful city with quite a few places that you would not exactly "show to company"). And, no, I did not drive about "seeking the hood". I genuinely feel that Norfolk is a lovely town that has a "perception" problem. The Norfolk community has many plusses and amenities; "talk it up". ;0)
Well that's good to hear but we routinely have people coming in here talking greasy so any praise is viewed with skepticism, as there are a lot of backhanded comments from tourists, and transients, in this forum. If it does not apply to you my apologies.

But there is nothing exceptional about Norfolk. It is just a regular town. Tens, if not hundreds, of towns just like Norfolk, with all of its problems, and all that is good about it. Only thing unique about Norfolk is that it is in a residential area where the surrounding towns are essentially counties turned suburbs, turned cities, that are now larger than the original city, both in land size and in population. That is the unique situation, but nothing else really special unless you start digging deep into the history of the area to learn it's significance with respect to American history.

Norfolk has some shipyards and as such is a smaller version of some other port cities on the West Coast, or a reminder of what things were like back in the glory days of shipyards on the East Coast, so there is significance as a port city. You'll also notice the same with Portsmouth. There aren't any other shipbuilding operations I know of, as even Charleston is a distant memory, other than Connecticut. If you're really interested you should check out the operations over in Newport News if you want blue collar you should check out that area. I think you're conflating the blue collar nature of the Peninsula, what little bit of it exists, with the Southside. The Peninsula is more down to earth, and practical, than the Southside. More Midwestern. The Southside can be a little uppity and closer to the arrogance you'll find in Washington DC, closer to how things are in Northern Virginia. Particularly in Virginia Beach and Chesapeake.

As thus there is a deep blue collar history but you should know those industries do not exist here anymore. Only real blue collar here is shipbuilding. Most of the factories have closed. If you see a building it is probably an apartment complex, or someone wants to turn it into one. We just tore down a tobacco plant someone wanted to turn into an apartment complex, but the developer could not secure financing. An automobile plant had just closed when I got here around 10 years ago. An automobile dealership from the fifties just turned into apartments. That is Norfolk today. The Norfolk you're romanticizing about existed 60 years ago. Norfolk is a white collar town primarily downtown, and in the neighborhoods and going out towards the other cities you have a lot of service industry work and medical. It looks like a blue collar town but it really isn't. No different than your typical Midwestern city; it has that infrastructure, but that part of the country hasn't been blue collar for several decades. Norfolk is not Nashville, or Atlanta, or Memphis, or Birmingham, or any of those things. Maybe you see the potential in where vestiges of it give off that charm but that isn't reality. It is what it is.

The suburbs of Norfolk are considered to be the great cities now. Virginia Beach, Chesapeake. These cities are building up their central business districts and creating a downtown from scratch. Virginia Beach is miles ahead, but Chesapeake also has plans in the works. Virginia Beach will eventually have a downtown that rivals Norfolk, unless they run out of financing or they run out of land. It will probably end up like the Loop in Chicago; small, but incredibly dense. The difference being the quick and abrupt end to that urban experience as soon as you leave whereas in Chicago the density continues well into the neighborhoods. If nothing else Virginia Beach could build your Buckhead or Midtown. Give it about 50 years and see what happens. 15 or 20 years if they can get a cash infusion.

Last edited by goofy328; 07-04-2017 at 05:48 AM..
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Old 07-04-2017, 01:35 PM
 
708 posts, read 528,402 times
Reputation: 810
Way to go crapping all over the OP's kind review. You just soured a visitor's impression of a fine city. And for what? To state the obvious (that a metro area of 1.8 million people has bad areas)? Classless move people.
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
4,844 posts, read 4,578,718 times
Reputation: 2441
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencer114 View Post
Way to go crapping all over the OP's kind review. You just soured a visitor's impression of a fine city. And for what? To state the obvious (that a metro area of 1.8 million people has bad areas)? Classless move people.
You're about as clueless as the OP if you don't understand why the discussion evolved in the way that it did. Hampton Roads has problems. No different than any other metro. If people want to move or visit they'll take the good AND the bad. We don't need people that are escaping reality. We need people that are serious about being here.

People have a right to have an honest discussion about their town, unimpeded, on their forum. The censorship on the Hampton Roads forum is unbelievable. If the area is as strong as we say it is why aren't we acting like it. Particularly when someone from Atlanta, a metro 3 times as large, is impressed. There's nothing wrong with setting an OP straight. Every forum on C-D does this. The fact that we don't, because of our inferiority complex. Because we're afraid someone won't like us. It's embarrassing. No fortitude whatsoever.
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Old 07-04-2017, 05:11 PM
Status: "grooving salt air" (set 13 days ago)
 
851 posts, read 617,453 times
Reputation: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
You're about as clueless as the OP if you don't understand why the discussion evolved in the way that it did. Hampton Roads has problems. No different than any other metro. If people want to move or visit they'll take the good AND the bad. We don't need people that are escaping reality. We need people that are serious about being here.

People have a right to have an honest discussion about their town, unimpeded, on their forum. The censorship on the Hampton Roads forum is unbelievable. If the area is as strong as we say it is why aren't we acting like it. Particularly when someone from Atlanta, a metro 3 times as large, is impressed. There's nothing wrong with setting an OP straight. Ev ery forum on C-D does this. The fact that we don't, because of our inferiority complex. Because we're afraid someone won't like us. It's embarrassing. No fortitude whatsoever.
The discussion "evolved the way it did" because a poster manufactured an unnecessary dis on the city of Norfolk responding to a complimentary post by a visitor to our region, and the city of Norfolk in particular. What "censorship" are you talking about and how is it unbelievable?
We ARE acting like the area is as strong as we say it is by trying to minimize the mindlessly random, stupid comments posted by blowhards that have nothing AT ALL to contribute to any civil discussion.
How are you "setting the OP straight"?!
What do you mean by "we need people that are serious about being here", what the hell does that mean?!
Jeezus, I am so embarrassed and stunned by the way some local posters come forth with these wildly irrational and illogical statements about this area.

Do you understand what FORTITUDE is and and how it has NOTHING to do with what this discussion is about?

peace out....

Sorry about all this Clayton white guy, this is an exceptional place to live and you got it. Please come back and explore some more. PM me if you like.

Maybe we should close this thread.....

Last edited by Poquoson7; 07-04-2017 at 05:22 PM..
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Old 07-05-2017, 06:27 AM
 
1,066 posts, read 610,731 times
Reputation: 1949
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpier015 View Post
Norfolk is only dangerous to people from Norfolk. I've lived in Baltimore, Philly, DC, Norfolk, Richmond ect..
Mpier, with respect.. this is a low to standard to praise/measure Norfolk with..
You're stating Norfolk is safer than Baltimore or DC, fair enough. But those are literally 2 of the most dangerous cities in America (& Richmond was the per-capita murder capital of the US, back in the late 8os).
Norfolk is still more dangerous & crime-riddled than tens of thousands of other towns & cities.

To your point about posters inaccurately painting a bleak picture of Norfolk. I'll submit to you, if you were a solidly middle (or upper-middle) class family looking to buy a home in Hampton Roads.. your opinion, what would be the appeal of Norfolk, over VB or ChesaFreak. Which Norfolk public middle & high school would u consider good (?) [And I don't know if this is the case anymore, but back in the 9os, u might be able to find a mythic nice working class home near Military & Northampton, etc.. but your kids could still get bused & dumped at Booker T Washington.]
But I agree with you, that Norfolk isn't a bad place to visit. I did two tours in Norfolk, so appreciate it basically for nostalgic reasons. peace
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Old 07-05-2017, 08:36 AM
 
Location: DMV - RVA
224 posts, read 98,979 times
Reputation: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babe_Ruth View Post
Mpier, with respect.. this is a low to standard to praise/measure Norfolk with..
You're stating Norfolk is safer than Baltimore or DC, fair enough. But those are literally 2 of the most dangerous cities in America (& Richmond was the per-capita murder capital of the US, back in the late 8os).
Norfolk is still more dangerous & crime-riddled than tens of thousands of other towns & cities.

To your point about posters inaccurately painting a bleak picture of Norfolk. I'll submit to you, if you were a solidly middle (or upper-middle) class family looking to buy a home in Hampton Roads.. your opinion, what would be the appeal of Norfolk, over VB or ChesaFreak. Which Norfolk public middle & high school would u consider good (?) [And I don't know if this is the case anymore, but back in the 9os, u might be able to find a mythic nice working class home near Military & Northampton, etc.. but your kids could still get bused & dumped at Booker T Washington.]
But I agree with you, that Norfolk isn't a bad place to visit. I did two tours in Norfolk, so appreciate it basically for nostalgic reasons. peace
To me, this is not a low standard. Those cities, specifically DC and Philadelphia, are still very much a couple of the most desirable places to live and visit in our country. You are proving my point. Those cities are indeed some of the most dangerous cities in the US while simultaneously being some of the most desirable and fastest growing cities. See how both of those things are possible?

Again, I'm not sure if you noticed or not but MOST inner cities in the nation struggle with public schools, especially High Schools. This is in no way a problem unique to Norfolk. This is why A LOT of families move to suburbs once there children are beginning to reach highschool age. Richmond has the same problem. Washington is one of the most affluent cities in the nation and has this problem. Most people move to suburbs(VA beach, Chesapeake, Henrico, Midlothian, Fairfax, Loudoun ect) or put their children into private school. This does not make the city into a 'bad' city. As far as neighborhoods go, I'd do just fine in Talbot Park, Ghent, Lakewood, the Freemason area ect. As stated earlier, I've lived in Titus Town, Ocean View and on Hampton blvd across the street from Churches Chicken. I never once experienced any issues.

The point that I was making is that even though the cities I named struggle with inner city issues they are still very much a desirable place to visit and live. You can say this about Philadelphia, Atlanta, Nashville, Louisville and the list continues. No, I don't feel Norfolk is a particularly dangerous or undesirable city when compared to any older, inner city. I don't believe in "Most Dangerous" city lists but even if you were to use that as a metric, Norfolk is never at the top of those lists for cities over 200,000. Yes, Richmond was a very dangerous city at one point but that is not the narrative that we carry with us everyday. We know that Richmond is a great city, regardless of it's past.

A poster visited the city of Norfolk and was so impressed by the city that they actually went online and wrote a raving review on a city data forum. In return they received a barrage of "How dare you like our horrible city. It's so dangerous here. I hate it. Don't come here with your false sense of hope". Here you are defending that type of behavior. I said it once and I'll say it again...Norfolk's problems are in no way unique to Norfolk and in no way are a hindrance to someone being able to enjoy visiting. Believe it or not there are people who enjoy living in cities that on paper may turn you off.

Last edited by mpier015; 07-05-2017 at 09:38 AM..
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:35 AM
 
927 posts, read 566,618 times
Reputation: 1499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poquoson7 View Post
Moderator-if you got rid of Coconut1 please consider doing the same with this one. This forum became much more relevant with the exit of certain posters, let's not slip back into that dark time. It does no good and benefits no one.
As you can see, this poster has hijacked an otherwise complimentary post about this area by defaming it and all the posts after his/hers have certainly veered away from what the OP had in mind.
What a pathetic attempt to get me banned. You shouldn't try to censor people who do not agree with you.

OP was a visitor and painted a wildly inaccurate depiction of Norfolk, and it is one that could lead someone to get hurt.

City-data is not about feel-good optimism. It's about fact. If you consider the truth offensive, you shouldn't post on an information forum.
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:11 AM
 
Location: DMV - RVA
224 posts, read 98,979 times
Reputation: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockdev View Post
What a pathetic attempt to get me banned. You shouldn't try to censor people who do not agree with you.

OP was a visitor and painted a wildly inaccurate depiction of Norfolk, and it is one that could lead someone to get hurt.

City-data is not about feel-good optimism. It's about fact. If you consider the truth offensive, you shouldn't post on an information forum.
I don't feel like that was the OPs intention. I honestly don't feel like what the OP said was even inaccurate or problematic. IMO, the OP gave THEIR experience and opinion. If your opinion differs then that is ok, that is what opinions are for. I don't want to be confrontational but I feel as though you are reading further into what OP wrote then what they actually said. They didn't tell prospective visitors to go gallivanting through Tidewater Park or Calvert Square. They literally said that they enjoyed the city and they were surprised because they had read such negative posts about Norfolk. How is that really a bad thing? The average passerby stopping at a convenience store on Church or Tidewater is not going to be a victim of crime. Crime mostly happens to those involved in that type of lifestyle. Believe it or not there are people who have lived in Baltimore, Chicago or Philadelphia their entire lives and have never had issues with crime. I do not think, matter of fact, I am sure that Norfolk is not more dangerous than the cities I listed.

You have your opinion on Norfolk, which is completely fine and justifiable, but to tell an out of towner that their opinion is inaccurate and will get someone hurt is just as wrong as what you are saying that Poquoson is doing to you. People have differing opinions but when you start to berate people for an OPINION is where it becomes ugly. I don't want to further derail this thread so I will leave this alone.
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Old 07-05-2017, 01:51 PM
 
336 posts, read 657,586 times
Reputation: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
We're on the same page. I took it that way as well. I've been in Atlanta and it definitely has some neighborhoods that you might take pause to. I would only proceed if I knew someone that lives there. Downtown is okay but it gets sketchy after hours, no different than anywhere else.

When I first moved here, I heard so much _ about South Norfolk, Norfolk, Hampton, and Newport News that gets in your head I wasn't entirely sure. But then I lived in South Norfolk and it was cool; depressing, but never anything I was in fear of. Newport News was a little darker but from what I gathered, if you stayed out of the housing projects you were okay. No different from Portsmouth.

Part of it is the media. Where was Norfolk on that top 30 list? Number 28. And what was that rate. 12 out of 100,000. And why does 12 out of 100,000 qualify you to be in the top 30 anyway? Back in the nineties 12 out of 100,000 wouldn't even get you into the top 50. Things are just a lot different now then they were back in the day.



I would have loved to know what 12 out of 100,000 felt like when I was in Dayton, OH. That is a breath of fresh air to some people. They don't realize how good they have it in their own little bubble.

Petersburg is number 6 on the list. Only other city on the list I see is Portsmouth, at number 16. Missouri is no slouch either.

I didn't realize that Petersburg,VA and Portsmouth,VA were on the 2017 highest murder rate city lists until this post. Smh. Nonetheless, I agree that Norfolk is a normal older city that has nice and rough areas. I have never experienced any violence/crime in Norfolk, but I have family members who have told me stories about living out there. I agree that you will be okay 99 percent of the time as long as you aren't involved in any criminal activities, disrespectful to the locals, or stand out in an ostentatious way.
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Old 07-09-2017, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
4,844 posts, read 4,578,718 times
Reputation: 2441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbank007 View Post
I didn't realize that Petersburg,VA and Portsmouth,VA were on the 2017 highest murder rate city lists until this post. Smh. Nonetheless, I agree that Norfolk is a normal older city that has nice and rough areas. I have never experienced any violence/crime in Norfolk, but I have family members who have told me stories about living out there. I agree that you will be okay 99 percent of the time as long as you aren't involved in any criminal activities, disrespectful to the locals, or stand out in an ostentatious way.
Definitely. No different than most places.
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