1.9 million people and sports team... (Virginia Beach, Norfolk: crime, college, high income)

[xGrendelx]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Virginia Beach will NEVER reach 1.9 million people. It took over 40 years to get half a million, and take a look at all of the cities with more people....you notice something? Huge corporate presence, thriving down towns, museums, culture, athletics, thriving universities.......while Virginia Beach continues to be an overpopulated resort, except it lacks the weather and culture value of other overpopulated resorts such as Orlando, Miami, and Honolulu.

All things Virginia Beach is currently building and in 20 years predicted to have.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by xGrendelx

All things Virginia Beach is currently building and in 20 years predicted to have.

Yeah, Virginia Beach, dispite slowing to almost a crawl in population growth (some sources actually believe the city is losing people), is going to suddenly quadruple its population in the course of 20 years.

Ill believe that when I see it.

[Central Illinois 1]

Professional sports teams were mentioned on here. But, being a total outsider to this area, it seems as though your market might be too close to existing sports franchises in DC, Baltimore, and Charlotte. Combined, these areas have two professional baseball teams, three football teams, two NBA teams, and one (maybe two?) NHL franchises. Most professional sports media markets are very large (even for the smaller city teams like Green Bay that essentially has the entire state of wisconsin as a market. If you look at professional sports, they all have somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 teams for a US population of 300 million. On average, that's a 10 million person market area per team for each sport. So even if your area goes up to 2 million in population, where will the rest of the market come from? Believe me, I am just curious and I am not trying to burst any bubbles or otherwise say anything negative about the Hampton Roads area.

[xGrendelx]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Ill believe that when I see it.

Well I'll believe the experts before I believe you.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by Central Illinois 1

Professional sports teams were mentioned on here. But, being a total outsider to this area, it seems as though your market might be too close to existing sports franchises in DC, Baltimore, and Charlotte. Combined, these areas have two professional baseball teams, three football teams, two NBA teams, and one (maybe two?) NHL franchises. Most professional sports media markets are very large (even for the smaller city teams like Green Bay that essentially has the entire state of wisconsin as a market. If you look at professional sports, they all have somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 teams for a US population of 300 million. On average, that's a 10 million person market area per team for each sport. So even if your area goes up to 2 million in population, where will the rest of the market come from? Believe me, I am just curious and I am not trying to burst any bubbles or otherwise say anything negative about the Hampton Roads area.

Basketball and Hockey are not the same as football or baseball, because they need a whole lot less population to fill a stadium on a nightly basis. For that same reason, the markets for these sports arent quite as large.

Football isnt exactly the same either, because it is played at home 8 times a season, and can pull its fanbase from hundreds of miles away. California once fielded 4 football teams, and the two in LA did not leave for attendence issues.

I think, population wise, we may have enough people for basketball or hockey, which are the two most frequently mentioned pro sports for the area. However, other factors will surely block that from ever happening.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by xGrendelx

Well I'll believe the experts before I believe you.

What experts? The ones that projected that Virginia Beach was going to be at 1.9 million people with an 11% growth rate in 20 years? Is that 11% per year? Something that Virginia Beach hasnt seen since the late 90's? Or maybe the fact that Virginia Beach has grown by 3.6% TOTAL since 2000 is a sure fire tell tale stat........or maybe its because Virginia Beach aquired so much more buildable land above the green line?

There is one of two things, A. The article was referring to Virginia Beach as "metro Virginia Beach" (Hampton Roads, which would be realistic), or B. They are flat out wrong, period.

There is NOTHING that would logically lead a person to the conclusion that Virginia Beach itself would quadruple its size in 20 years.

[xGrendelx]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

What experts? The ones that projected that Virginia Beach was going to be at 1.9 million people with an 11% growth rate in 20 years? Is that 11% per year? Something that Virginia Beach hasnt seen since the late 90's? Or maybe the fact that Virginia Beach has grown by 3.6% TOTAL since 2000 is a sure fire tell tale stat........or maybe its because Virginia Beach aquired so much more buildable land above the green line?

There is one of two things, A. The article was referring to Virginia Beach as "metro Virginia Beach" (Hampton Roads, which would be realistic), or B. They are flat out wrong, period.

There is NOTHING that would logically lead a person to the conclusion that Virginia Beach itself would quadruple its size in 20 years.

Then take your complaint up with Forbes! Your an accountant, not a paid researcher for one of the most well-known business and real estate magazines in the world. I'm going to take their word over yours. Maybe they know something you don't.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by xGrendelx

Then take your complaint up with Forbes! Your an accountant, not a paid researcher for one of the most well-known business and real estate magazines in the world. I'm going to take their word over yours. Maybe they know something you don't.

Because I work as an accountant (mostly because this area has no demand at all for my real talents, which are that of Financial and Statistical Analyst), does not mean I do not know a whole lot about the collection and analyzation of data.

Yeah, I bet the Forbes researchers have some inside info that in 10 years, the Virginia Beach City council is going to open the green line to developers wholesale (info that real estate developers arent even privy to), and that, dispite largely failing to lure any kind of corporate identity here for its existance, and being largely dependent on tourism and the military (which is losing a carrier by the way), its going to create over a million more jobs for these new locals to work at in 20 years.

There is no "inside information", the article is likely referring to the METRO Virginia Beach area, better known as Hampton Roads.

Hampton Roads is limited in its growth ability due to the "suburban" nature of its inhabitants in combination with its dwindling open land, and its lack of major national employers and lack of any true urban center. These are not going to change in 10-20 or even 30 years.

[Central Illinois 1]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Basketball and Hockey are not the same as football or baseball, because they need a whole lot less population to fill a stadium on a nightly basis. For that same reason, the markets for these sports arent quite as large.

Football isnt exactly the same either, because it is played at home 8 times a season, and can pull its fanbase from hundreds of miles away. California once fielded 4 football teams, and the two in LA did not leave for attendence issues.

I think, population wise, we may have enough people for basketball or hockey, which are the two most frequently mentioned pro sports for the area. However, other factors will surely block that from ever happening.

Basketball and hockey both have 40 or 41 home games a year though. So even if the per game attendance is alot less than football, a team would probably have to sell 15,000 tickets per game or more (40 games x 15,000 fans = 600,000 tickets per year) to have a chance at being profitable. With 8 home football games a year at say 60,000 fans, that is around 480,000 tickets. I think it would boil down to market size and the degree of fan support that you would have for whatever sport.

[xGrendelx]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Because I work as an accountant (mostly because this area has no demand at all for my real talents, which are that of Financial and Statistical Analyst), does not mean I do not know a whole lot about the collection and analyzation of data.

Yeah, I bet the Forbes researchers have some inside info that in 10 years, the Virginia Beach City council is going to open the green line to developers wholesale (info that real estate developers arent even privy to), and that, dispite largely failing to lure any kind of corporate identity here for its existance, and being largely dependent on tourism and the military (which is losing a carrier by the way), its going to create over a million more jobs for these new locals to work at in 20 years.

There is no "inside information", the article is likely referring to the METRO Virginia Beach area, better known as Hampton Roads.

Hampton Roads is limited in its growth ability due to the "suburban" nature of its inhabitants in combination with its dwindling open land, and its lack of major national employers and lack of any true urban center. These are not going to change in 10-20 or even 30 years.

I'm done, man. All I know is Forbes is a better source than Randomdude on city-data, so I'm going to go with them. Who knows if they meant the METRO area or not? All I can go by is what they wrote which says nothing of the rest of Hampton Roads. Ask them if it really eats you up.